Where you can contact the devs for balance changes? (Kipchak Buff)

the point is cost matters.
yeah the mangudai is better then the cav archer in nearly every situation, however they actually cost more then a regular cav archer. the kipchack on the other is dirt cheap and doesn’t even require gold to upgrade to elite kipchack, so why should they be able to stand in equal footing as them?

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They’re melee units from castle, they’re more prone to die in frontlines, kipchaks and Mangudai are untouchable with their speed and range. I don’t think it’s a good comparison, If the kipchak is to be made more powerful, it’ll have to lose the low gold cost, trash elite upgrade to gold upgrade and increase in frame delay

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exactly. the kipchack not only trains faster then the mangudai, it costs 35 gold vs the 65 gold of the mangudai. they also have ZERO frame delay. and the upgrade cost to elite? save a bunch of gold their as well.

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They don’t, though. They’re worse against Pikeman and worse against ranged units (especially Arbalester) and they always will be because they lack the range of Bracer. Even with +1 damage, I don’t think they’ll beat generic HCA against Paladins, and they’re still hard to mass.

I’m sorry; this confused me. More prone to die? Leitis and Keshik are straight up better in virtually every way in Castle Age, and trade well until late Imperial (and Leitis are pretty much always a good option, even over Paladin). Could you explain a bit more? This point is really important to your whole argument and I don’t quite understand it.

Edit: more prone to die than Kipchak, I understand.

show me equal resources kipchacks taking down a bunch of pikes slower then equal resources ca.

leitis literally cost an arm and a leg in castle age.

either way, the point is. if you want kipchak to be made better, expect to pay for it.

I didn’t run this test, another user in my Kipchak thread did. Equal resources, not sure, but CA take them down a LOT faster supply for supply in his tests. I think it was 50%-100% faster.

As for resource investment: So do Knights. And so do Kipchaks; they need a crap ton of upgrades to be effective.

I’m fine paying for it; maybe in the Elite upgrade cost. I still don’t feel it’s necessary, as the unit just feels that weak in Imperial Age. Use it in real games. Imperial Age Kipchaks don’t do well against other gold units (Knight line and Archer line); they usually do really poorly.

but that doesn’t factor in the cost. which is what makes kipchacks what they are.

kipchacks are dirt cheap. literally 35g each. no gold to upgrade to elite.

This point was about Castle Age, no? Anyway, I talked about cost in my post above. Too much talking for my brain to handle at 1am, so I’m off for now. Hopefully more and better discussion tomorrow!

Ranged UUs are more popular because they’re easier to keep alive while melee UUs struggle with production. Buffing most melee UUs isn’t usually a problem because their counters still work (pikes and camels as example here). They need to get closer to dish the damage.
Kipchak is easier to access compared to Mangudai due to Cuman eco and overall affordability

@MatCauthon3 don’t beat a dead horse

Elite kipchak upgrade doesn’t cost gold!

yup along with plumes

yeah thats what I meant. and that is the only REASON, WHY I want this buff.

cause 50 kipshaks should oneshould a pala. it feels very weak. and you cant hit and run vs them rly effective. you will lose the game then. the main battle.

and as u said, massed archers should kill an pala in one volley. and that is the case for any other civ.

and the thing even here is, that you miss one range. which you also have to think about.

also what is true, and their main weakness, is when you have simple normal front battles, where you face like 70 units vs 70. they are not very strong in an standing position fight. you will lose against any other archer civ easy on ground. cause the low hp, and the lacking range. also their dmg is just mediocore. so for me it is not enough.

+1 damage more, and they are fine.

they will be good/better on normal massed ground battles. and still can use their speed for other stuff, as they do now.

also lacking bracers makes your skirms and castles way weaker. pple forget that. that is also VERY important for position and lategame fights.

would the unit feel balanced, I would not post that.

do you even play 1on1 on high elo?

you dont have time for the elite upgrade. and it doesnt feel cheap. when you are attacked early on. you have to produce army buildings, siege, triboks, ballistic upgrade as fast as you can to go into an good imperial fight and prepare for it. and all of that cost a lot of wood. so you dont have wood. and the unit itself is also VERY wood hungry.

it is simple math, that you need a lot of time, to get all this going. cause wood isnt fast gathered. and everything costs wood. I have more gold mostly, then wood in games. in the time where the battle starts.

so you need all the upgrades, the elite upgrade, the unit itself massed(60 wood), triboks for counter, and way more other stuff. and you really say the upgrade is cheap and easy to get? never in my life. the enemy can counter your unit way more cost effective and easier, with skirms and palas.

so in an real situation, you cant easy mass them. it is ■■■■■■■■. in 2v2 maybe with a good position. but not in 1v1.

I think we play different games. cause I cant easy mass kipshaks. on castle age maybe I could go for them, but there they are weak.

and to be imperial effective, you need mass upgrades for them. which needs a long time. what you dont have. cause you get instant rushed every game after imperial tech. you are facing instantly an huge army and triboks firing your castle. so there is no way to get easy and fast elite kipshaks. and even when, the enemy could easy counter them with skirms and other stuff.

so it is nonsense.

they need 100% an one dmg buff. because they are bad in normal standing/pushing fights. and I saw that many times. on my games. and even on viper streams. they are not pop efficient in such normal battles.

they die like ■■■■. and in real scenarios, they are not that good.

I prefere them over an regular cav archer. yes. but they should get one damage more, just because of lacking range and low hp.

you talk as the resources are freely aviable. but it never feels like that. it takes a long time to get to elite upgrade. and without the elite upgrade, the unit is useless. so you have no really good unit, for a long time, just knights.

and knights are easy countered.

the enemy doesnt need elite ugprades, to presure you.

and you need it.

so you are as long behind, as you get those.

and wood is still hard to get, on many maps.

especially, when you get attacked.

if you survive long enough you have wood. but that is not often the case in 1v1.

games are very fast there.

they just feel a bit weak in normal battles. if they rly are an close range archer, they should have a bit higher dps.

in the past they had better rate of fire. and that was really good. I think one dmg would not break or change anything big. but make their volley stronger, or their standing dps.

and the problem is, that kumans really need that unit, to be a good civ.

I haven’t had a chance to comment here again as of yet, and the walls of text above are a lot to read, but lyriclight already said the key thing early on.

Range.

Kipchak do not do well against ranged units, other than Skirmishers (which still do well against Kipchak; they just do better than other CA since Skirmishers have such low HP).

Why? Because you can’t hit and run them. Arbalest and CA outrange the Kipchak. They have good/more HP, and do more damage.

Not asking for more range, like Bracer. Just +1 damage in Imperial Age, to keep pace with armour upgrades other civs get. Paladin civs actually get +2 more armour than Kipchak get damage in Imperial.

i played vs aztecs now. with 9 range skirms. you have zero chance to win.

Which is the way it should be. Range is already a huge weakness of Kipchaks, and that’s their character. +1 damage lets them be more competitive late-game. I do think it should be +1 on Elite, though - it could be too strong as a Civ bonus as soon as you hit Imp. Not sure on that yet.

but how should it get into the game, when the developers do not even read that?

somebody has to contact them directly, with that impression?

I really dont think that cumans are in that good spot at the moment.

and also I lose many games, before I even get to elite upgrade.

the second town center sometimes even feels like a handicap.

and spending 275 wood and stone in feudal is also very expensive. you need 7-8 on wood to get that.

and still you need 2 buildings then for an castle tech.

In my humble opinion, the Kipchak isn’t a power unit. The 0 frame delay shows it’s a unit supposed to outmaneuver the enemy. The unit will by design fall of in huge late game battle as it’s not supposed to be smashed into the enemy army, like palas can . And anyway there is no rule that states that an archer UU should be able to kill a pala in 50 shots. Maybe that +1 buff will happen, maybe it won’t, but I think it’s super low priority.

They do. Some suggestions of these forums did end up into the game, like Goth free loom.

10 vills eco lead OR anti-building feudal unit + faster cav + pala + full barracks + siege onager + siege ram… Pretty safe to say that Cuman have tons of things going for them.

Sure if you go straight for it on say, Serengeti you will have trouble. But nothing forces you to use it, and with feudal rams and faster scouts Cuman have other options.

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sounds really nice on paper. but suxx really hard in reality.

no one is going rams in feudal. even if they tried that vs me, it was easy to counter. that strat suxx hard for winning serious matches.

no one is doing that.

scout rush is also a wasted option, because the civ is more favourable for an boom.

there are better scout civs. knight line is really fine. but thats it.

kipshaks should do a bit more damage. consider how hard they are to mass and to get the elite upgrade. and lacking bracers is a now go.

bad for trash fights their skirms. bad castles for protection.

they should get something more to compensate that.

like my suggestion.