They’re good because of more military pop available, I don’t think their eco is anything special though even in 1v1 sup it falls off by late fortress compared to other civs.
For Ethiopia, it seems like 99 villagers gathering food on fields is about 6350 f/minute which amounts to a 1.08 f/s gather rate per villager. The tooltip says their gather rate is 1.23 f/s so they lose approximately 13% by walking around even with the speed upgrade.
For coin, 99 villagers gather about 4450 c/minute which amounts to about 0.75 c/s per villager. The tooltip says 0.87 c/s so it is about 14% lost by walking.
Since I was somewhat just estimating the average resource per minute from the resource per minute counter, it’s not exact and they probably lose somewhere between 13-15%.
I think where they are strong is their influence generation. 20 fully fattened cows with transhumance is worth 13 influence/second and 30 fully fattened goats are worth 9 influence/second.
6 upgraded mountain monasteries amount to about 8.6 resources/second. They can be upgraded another 25% with the Somali and India age ups but I did not include those since I don’t think they are widely used in treaty. With those upgrades, 6 fully upgraded monasteries amount to 10 resources/second.
All those put together is worth more than the trickle of 4 factories.
And then they also get Jesuit Influence and coin/influence per kill but it is a little hard to put those things to numbers.
Then there are also some cards that I don’t think are used as much like Hegemony and Draft Oxen.
Great post very interesting. I like the age 1 card with mountain monasteries which gives you 1000 coin on each 1 built, now they are quite cheap to build I find I never gather coin from fields I just destroy mountain monasteries and rebuild them for a new mini 1K coin mine for 150 wood.
I’d imagine hausa are quite strong too with universities generating influence, the card that gives you wood from field income and the cattle/goats. Perhaps not quite as good as ethiopia though in the very late game.
melhor eco são da civilizações africanas o quarto recurso ‘‘influencia’’ e pego de de graça talvez hoje lakota tem a melhor taxa de comida com animais de caça
Yeah lakota has quite an insane eco late game with the gold they get from hunting and infinite bison shipments. The influence from african civs is perhaps not always that great though as it is limited to only certain units.
So Dutch with all cards age Age V upgrades:
- have all european cards except eco theory (10% on Mill and Estates), wood/gold tickles => so +50% on Mills /+90% on Estates, added to the +95% on Mills / +110% on estates from the upgrades
- can go up to 65 villagers (50 + 2x5 with age 1 cards + 5 with some politician)
- can go up to 11 Banks with tulip speculation, getting 36.3 gold/s, which is equivalent to 34.5 of their settlers on gold (assuming a 0.35 gold/s base gather rate on Estates, after taking into account the walking time)
- The two factories that every european civilizations have
You could revolt to South Africa and get +10% gold on the banks (so ~40 settlers equivalent: +5.5 settlers), but lose the +50% gather rate on wood/gold/food due to not going to age 5 (so they get ~250% of base gather rate instead of ~300%), which is like losing ~10 settlers. Which is not worth it.
So they have the equivalent of 99 villagers like other european civs, so they are above average thanks to all their cards. I think they are:
- behind German (miss 5% on Mill, food/wood tickles) and Russians (miss food/wood tickles)
- similar to French (miss 20% estate, food/gold tickles, 80 cdb equivalent 100 settlers), Spanish (missing 15% on Mill, food/wood tikles, but with spanish gold + fast shipments), Portuguese (miss 15% on Mill, all tickles, but get +20% on Mill and -5% on Estates)
- above Sweden after torps expire (missing 9 settlers, 10%+15%+15% on Mill, 10%+20% on Estates, wood/gold tickles), Ottomans (missing 20%+25% on estates, food/wood tickles) and British (missing 10%+15% on Mill, 10%+15% on Estates, and food/gold tickles)
If you compare them to Germans, who got the “best cards” (only Russians get +5% on Mills), and they can in addition train up to 20 settler wagons, who are worth 2 villagers each and get a card +35% resource gathering (so every settler wagon end up being worth ~2.2 villagers after all cards and upgrades). So German have potentially around 40 settlers more than every other civ.
In the end there is no european civ that can beat a fully carded and fully upgraded german economy. So the best economy overall goes either to the German or to a non-european civ.
PS: in the above I excluded livestock pen, I don’t know how strong it is compared to a Mill in average (fattening time + gathering time of the sheeps compared to gathering on a Mill the whole time). If it is very strong, then the British may compete or be better than German.
Well i don’t play treaty your assumption is based on “in treaty”
This thread talks about best eco, it is not mentioned this is for treaty. There are not that many treaty players anyway compared to normal mode. So natually we will talk about supremacy eco unless the title specifies for treaty.
I don’t think this is talking about treaty or supremacy. Just best eco.
Just thinking about food on mills/rice paddies/fields and the possible extra upgrade cards
Japan - 81% ( can you imagine japan with 99 vils)
Malta - 70%
Port - 65% (though -5% on everything else)
Ethiopia - 65% (with granaries)
Otto & Russia - 60%
China is sort of a base line as far as I can tell with 50%
everyone else is kinda below that
Interesting, Japan is even higher on gold upgrades though plenty of civs seem to have quite a few gold upgrade cards.
Yes indeed ! I just checked the numbers (checking for me and others, you probabky already know that):
- Cows fatten from 50f to 500f in <300s with cards
(base 1f/s, +20% refrigeration, +30% Stockyards, +20% British Team Wool Staple Ports)
- Cows are gathered in 50s with fulling mills (250s without)
- Cows cost 80f and are trained in 15s.
- At most 20 cows at the same time
So British gain 420f every 365s (neglecting decay, whivh van be reduced by using several settlers per cow) for 20 villagers, and can gather from Mill or Estates during 350s of thoses.
So using Livestock pen and buying cows in parralel to Mills/Estate nearly doubles the production from 20 setters.
Sheeps cost 100f, fatten to 300f in 400s (0.5 base rate) are depleted in 30s, train in 10s and have a limit of 30. So they bring 200f every 440s for 30 settlers, which is similar to 15 settlers on Mills.
So Sheeps+Cows (if we can do both) are equivakent to 35 more villagers on Mill.
But still, every other european civ can do the same without fulling mills, just being half as efficient, so similar to having 15 to 20 more settlers on Mills. So British only got a 15 to 20 settlers lead over other europeans civs.
In the end I think German has the best European potential eco and British are second.
PS: I only compare europeans civs because it is easier for me to compare them.
China for instance should have a slightly better eco than British due to having better cards (Mills, Estate, Livestock), and food/gold tickles + french consulate (+5% Mill/Estates) + age 5 porcelain tower instead of a factory.
It is the “best possible eco with all cards and upgrades”, so it is like speaking about treaty. In supremacy 1v1 you do not (should not) pick that many eco cards, as otherwise you lose the game and do not get to a best possible eco.
If OP asked for the best mid game eco without rush (like 20 min treaty): then yeah British/Dutch/Swedes/Japan (maybe incas?) are great.
In 1v1 supremacy with rushes, Sweden and Japan maybhave troubles house booming.
Aztecs get 110%:
Food silos, and susteinable agriculture + 15
Chinampa and temple + 10
Great chinampa and grain market + 20
Wisewomen age 5 + 20
right there is also that vil temple card
man if aztec just had better gold eco they would be insane
I would change the wisewomen to give wagons that can build both, farms and estates. It could enable other strategies like boom in fortress with agrarian ways, or at least, become easier to get upgrades for mining. Idk.