Which of the 4 new civs is your favorite?

Of the four new civs introduced with DE, as part of the The Last Khans expansion that comes with DE, which is your favorite?

Personally I think Bulgarians are the most interesting and exciting of the four new civs. They are my favorite. The Lithuanians are my second favorite, Cumans comes 3rd, and the Tatars are my least favorite.

So, how about you, which of the four new civs is your favorite?

I’ve attacked a poll so people can vote, too :slight_smile:

  • Bulgarians
  • Cumans
  • Lithuanians
  • Tatars

0 voters

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I voted Lithuanian for their sheer versatility, and if they didn’t lost Parthian tactics in the beta I would have loved them above everything else for sure. I also like Tatars, at least because the ideas behind them are interesting and they are surprisingly versatile in late-game.

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I like Bulgarians best because I think that them getting the men at arms upgrade free makes them the most fun and exciting of all the men at arms rush civs, I LOVE their unique unit and think it’s the most unique unique unit in the game, I think kreposts are really interesting and I just really enjoy their tech tree and playstyle overall. Furtheremore, I love watching DauT play them and, as an oldschool player myself, I probably love them for the same reasons he does, I’m just lacking his skills, lol.

Second place for me is the Lithuanians because they also have a really cool unique unit and their relics giving extra attack is one of the most interesting bonuses in the game. I also really like their bonus where they start with extra food. I can imagine that if utilized to their full pros may be able to come up with some really interesting strategies with them. Some such strategies already exist.

I am sort of meh about the Cumans at this point because their powerful steppe lancers and feudal TC made them really special … I also really liked their unique unit. The only issue was that they were definitely overpowered and they needed a nerf, and so did steppe lancers in general. Those nerfs happened … I just think the nerfs went a little too far. As now the Cumans are too weak, I think.

The Tatars are my least favorite because I think they were already the weakest of the four civs and while their unique unit was an interesting idea in theory … in practice it was just so weak and isn’t much stronger after its buff. After the steppe lancer nerf they have become even weaker. And giving them halbs doesn’t buff them much when with their lackluster infantry armor upgrades they still have the weakest halbs in the game! I also think their hill bonus is underwhelming and many civs have far better eco bonuses than theirs. Or maybe they are just so weak in so many other ways that their eco bonus is less noticably good than with other civs.

I really like the idea of the Tatars civ bonus, though, and also their unique unit. And the sheep bonus is nice … but I doubt that buffing it would make them overpowered. I would enjoy the Tatars more if they weren’t so very weak. Although, maybe they’re okay in DM? Over the years I’ve always been an RM player but I am starting to play both RM and DM on the ranked ladder … so I guess only time will tell.

Tatars need more buffing for sure, though.

I’ve defended the new SLs quite a long time. Probably the broken pathing made them look better at first (after all, they are ranged units) but it’s when I tried to test the new mongol lancer and had to try THREE TIMES (with F3 cheating to micro) to beat MALAY KNIGHTS of all things that I realized that SL were inoffensive enough to fit on almost any civ 11

Their feudal bonuses are hard to use, but very effective once you get it. If you fear to misuse the second feudal TC, just start building it after clicking castle. They also have FU infantry, which no other cav+cav archer civ get. They are definitely high-midtier material.

Welp, having the weakest halbs is a huge improvement over having the weakest pikemen and hopefully it will fix their camel problem.

Personally I think people are sleeping on the Tatars a bit atm. They’ve got a solid early eco bonus that lets them go up without building a mill, then a perfectly decent scout rush, followed by quite good cavalry archers and an extremely good UU.

With 140 hp and 11 attack, they’re basically equivalent in terms of stats with Cavaliers, except they only cost 40 gold instead of 75 and 50 food instead of 60, so that’s already a very decent unit from a cost perspective. But they also generate gold, so in reality you’re looking at more like 30 or 20 gold per elite keshik, which is much, much crazier. Heck, that’s cheaper than scout cavalry!

And even better, if you heal them up they just keep generating more gold. Play well and pick your fights and you can end up with essentially trash cavaliers. That’s pretty dang good.

Silk Armor is a perfectly decent tech as well, giving them cavalry archers and scout cav with seven pierce armor. Even better, they instantly get a +2 pierce armor upgrade when they go to imperial, while enemies need to research bracer and chemistry, so they’re ahead for a significant part of the game. Notably, fully upgraded tatar CA’s BEAT FU Mongol Elite Mangudai in an even fight. And that’s not even accounting for their hill bonus.

Last of all, Tatars should win every trebuchet war. They just have to wait for the other player to unpack their trebuchets, unpack their own one tile further away, and poof, they win. If the other player packs and moves closer, Tatars have until they’ve fully packed and started to move to pack their own in turn, then they just have to move out of range and blep, they’re winning again.

So you’re looking at a solid early-game eco bonus, some of the best cavalry archers in the game, FU+ Hussars, trash Cavaliers, and guaranteed wins on treb wars? That’s not bad.

Wait wait wait, you mean you can send all berry villagers to sheep instead?

With 8 sheep and 2 boar, you’re looking at a total of 1880 harvestable food, compared to 1480 normally. You’ll lose probably 180 of that to decay, and 500 to the feudal up, leaving you with 1200 food, +200 starting, +3 villagers, meaning you could theoretically go up as late as 31 vills without taking a single one of your berries. A normal civ would instead have 800, or 23 villagers at most.

Realistically, assuming some inefficiency in there, a more realistic estimate would be 30 and 22.

Given their herdables last longer and therefore decay more, it would probably be to your benefit to put seven villagers on them.

Also, since this is their main eco bonus, you’d probably be ahead to do a fast feudal rush with scouts, going up with as little as 19-20 villagers or so.

Hmm, I get it, but what about the fact berries are eaten slower than sheeps? I don’t have all the rates in mind, but maybe the additional food from sheep will be eaten luch faster than berries, and thus you will end up building a mill anyway.

I did some tests for 6 sheep harvesting on Tatars (The Tartars need a buff and so does their hill bonus)

I like the Cumans. The feudal age TC is a very weird bonus, but I likt the way it plays. A bit of boom, a bit of army, made possible together by not paying for castle age just yet. If your opponent goes castle age you’ve got army to try and punish them while not falling too hopelessly behind in economy, if your opponent stays feudal they will be outgunning you, but you can hang back and defend using town centers and towers while you slowly start outpopping them behind it. I have no idea if it’s useless or too strong or whatever (I be a big noobynoob), but I really like the option in terms of playstyle.

The steppe lancer is also an instant favorite of mine. It’s almost the ideal “just one unit type army” unit. It’s melee but also a little ranged, it’s a gold unit but also a little trash, it’s expensive enough to be pretty pop efficient, it’s fast, it’s strong enough that it doesn’t die really super quickly… It’s fun to use. As such a versatile sort of average in a good way unit it also mixes well with other units to get an army that is still specialized in what the other unit does, but just a bit less vulnerable to counter tactics. Plus I bought DE late enough that I haven’t had to play against the buggy super death ball version of the unit, that helps too. It’s a bit of a shame I don’t like the look of the unit better (yes, unit looks are super important, it’s like a bonus to not getting ignored by the player as they are busy looking at something else).

I need to get more games in, but Cumans might actually be my new overall favorite civ.

Tatars are my favorite to play. I enjoy their focus on Steppe Lancers and Cavalry Archers, and their architecture is incredibly gorgeous.

The other three civilizations are mostly pretty fun to play as too, but all of them have some sort of gimmicky bonus that sort of puts me off. For the Bulgarians, the Konnik’s dismounting feature is cheesy, and I don’t like the idea of fast cavalry turning into slow infantry, anyway. For the Lithuanians, having their heavy cavalry units gain attack points for every relic forces awkward strategizing to utilize the civilization to its maximum potential, as powerful as it makes them. For the Cumans, having both an extra Town Center and the Siege Workshop with Batter Rams available in the Feudal Age prompts me to utilize early game strategies that feel unnatural to me and reduces some of the excitement of reaching the Castle Age. I love all three civilizations’ tech trees, but their unique features definitely give off a “running out of ideas” vibe to me, whereas the African Kingdoms and Rise of the Rajas civilizations all felt very naturally conceived (aside maybe from the Portuguese Feitoria, which only comes in Imp, anyway).

The Tatars’ biggest quirk is their hill bonus, but I enjoy that a lot more because it’s purely oriented towards direct battle tactics, rather than strange build orders, forced detours, or disorienting second lives. The Tatars may not be as competitively strong as the other three civilizations, but I find myself playing as them the most.

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