Why are these officially used objects hidden in the Scenario Editor?

There are certain objects in the Scenario Editor that can be useful for custom scenarios, but even though they are officially used in the Definitive Edition, they are among the hidden objects. It would be nice if they could be placed in maps by default, rather than relying on data mods, template scenarios or 3rd-party tools.

This does not refer to the hundreds of decaying corpses and about 170 projectiles, which are also officially part of the game. It’s only about objects that can be selected during a game and are interactable (not including the different forms of Villagers, Polemarch, 3K campaign heroes, et al., which are technically separate units, but one can only select the basic ones in the Scenario Editor).

Resource-generating Trade Workshop (ID 1647)
Same sprite as the decorative Trade Workshop. Automatically generates resources for its owner, like the Feitoria. It also allows the player to buy and sell resources, like a standard Market.
It appears in the Aftermath and all Battle Royale maps. Actually, it’s quite easy to place it in other maps, just generate a BR map in the Scenario Editor, then use the map copy function. So, why is this not included in the list of objects by default?

Neutral Market (ID 1646)
When placed as a Gaia object, all eight players are able to trade with this indestructible Market.
Actually, this one is no longer used, the neutral Markets found in Michi and Marketplace are now standard Markets modified via script. But still, this object appears to be fully functional, what speaks against making it available in the Scenario Edtior?

VMDL (ID 206)
Cheat unit present since AoK, civilian who moves extremely fast and doesn’t do much else. Looks like a mannequin and has unique voice lines independent of civ (heh, long before the 3K heroes). The only cheat unit never made available in the Scenario Editor, for whatever reason.

Rock (Stone) and Rock (Gold) (IDs 839 and 841)
Looks like the Rock 1 object, but Villagers can interact with this. When its hit points are reduced to zero, it turns into a Stone or Gold Mine. It’s comparable to trees and animals, which also have to be killed before Villagers start gathering resources.
Used in at least one official scenario, namely in the second William Wallace one. As far as I know, the two objects were not hidden in the Scenario Editor in HD.

Boarding Galleys (IDs 535 and 536)
Ships that are able to convert (but not to heal). These hidden units exist since AoK. They lack proper names (their internal ones are displayed), look like Galleys and use the Shah’s icon.
Such a ship made its first official appearance in the Drake (V&V) scenario, renamed Swan, but since it is still hidden and received neither proper name nor icon in the dataset, it only feels like a semi-official unit at most.
Interestingly, FE also added two more units of this kind, Stoertebeker (ID 114) and Monk Boat (ID 1022), which have yet to see any official usage.

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Interesting. Picture of the Polemarch?

This mod hasn’t been updated since ~2023 :frowning:

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Well, i dunno why some of these units are disabled. However, there are ‘some’ exceptions that are disabled for a reason. Such as the following:

[ID]

182: WNDR
183: TMISB
273: -
379: -
382 to 384: -
386 to 388: -
467: -
727: -
768: Blue Tree
769: -
770: -
900 to 1000: (about half named and the other half just -.)
1548: -
1549: -
1783: -
1924: -
1943: -
1955: -
1958: -
1963: -
1965: -
1967: -
1973: -
1979: -
1981: -
1983: -
2035: -
2037: -
2039: -
2041: -
2043: -
2081: -
2098 to 2100: -
2113 to 2116: -
2136: -
2137: -
2152 to 2161: -
2189: -
2239 to 2250: -
2266 to 2269: -
2295 to 2300: -
2305: -
2335 to 2338: -

All either crash the game/are unused/deprecated. So for those, they have an obvious reason they are disabled.

As for these others, my only idea would be is there may be cases where they work for specific conditions/players? I do know some unit ID’s can cause problems for other player slots. (I dunno why though. Maybe a coding bug or some limitation? I cannot say for sure but, I do have test results that does show this.)

edit: source: Definitive Constants List - Google Sheets

edit: Although, making these units available again, should be very simple. Select all these unit ID’s (Minus the ones mentioned above.) and click ‘Hide in Editor’ to enable them. (Unless, they are missing some data… such as strings and whatnot.)

They all look the same, it’s simply the Polemarch affected by different techs.
Certain 3K heroes have a “charge” variant. When placed in a map, they are always using their special ability. For example, Sun Jian always stomps the ground when he attacks (but only when next to an enemy in this case).
The unshielded Jian Swordsman is also a separate unit in the dataset.

Indeed.
Maybe there could be an “Unhide all units” toggle, with a warning that certain objects might cause the game to become unstable. It’s already possible to enter any ID for Create Object and other triggers, without warning.

Independent of that, I think the officially used objects in the first post should be available by default. The Boarding Galley would obviously need a proper name at least. Had they done it with the release of V&V, it could have been advertised as a “new” unit. Or just unhide Stoertebeker, already has a proper name.

Maybe this will become a tech tree unit in future similar to some editor units becoming available.

Darn, I hoped before clicking that this thread would be asking for a lot of the set decorations seen in campaigns to get used in SP and MP skirmish maps. Oh well. None of the above does much for me

Why do you want this fast mannequin? It seems pointless to me. Anyone know the history on this cheat? I typed it in for the first time 6 months ago and thought ‘why?’

From what I remember it was an inside joke from Ensemble and they based its dialogue on random things one of their members used to say during development.

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Pretty much all the background information can be found in the Wiki article, under Trivia.
For the sake of completeness, it should be there. It isn’t more out of place than 1960s cars and spacemen with laser guns (though those are admittedly more useful since they can attack). The sprite could represent a cursed doll or a robot or something in fantasy/SF scenarios…

I agree that more of the existing embellishment objects could be used for random maps.

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It was originally a naked human. The doll was basically censorship. lmao

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