Why do people keep suggesting trying to add Starcraft 2 elements into AoE IV?

It did speed up by a loooooot in AoE4.

In AoE2 it took you like 9 minutes to get feudal and 16-20min castle age
In AoE4, the fastest times I was able to have was like 4:30 feudal and 8:30 castle.

And that is ingame time too not actual minutes.
AoE4 in general starts with earlier aggression then AoE2

That might be true but that doesn’t matter if you can’t use it.

In AoE2 it would be a similar issue, when techstages lets say are completely free.
Yes you would be able to get up instantly after building requirements but have absolutely no economy to back up any plays at all.

AoE4 has very similar attack/build timings as AoE2 right now, when we talk about real time.
AoE4 drags quite a bit with the gamespeed which is holding it back.
AoE2 is getting played on 1.5 or 1.7, making some timings increadibly bad.
e.g. 12 minute double archery archer push AoE4 is basically castle age plays on 1.7 AoE2.

because SC 2 is almost dead and now they want a new RTS game which is SC 2, so trying to force mechanics into AOE4.

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All the other things do not matter to me except 1, in the SC2 you can grab all your units and different tabs are made, so you do not have to select separately that archer # 61 that you obtained.
Also, I want to say that SC1 and 2 and Warcraft 3 are good games.

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Because even to this day, Starcraft 2 has the best hotkey customization, the best quality of life options and the best RTS gameplay from a technical standpoint.

You can change ANY hotkey you want. The attack hotkey, the stop hotkey, patrol, (Aoe4 doesn’t have patrol) hold position. You have camera hotkeys. Aoe4 doesn’t have camera hotkeys. Take a look at this hotkey setup, which is impossible in any game, but its possible in SC2.

https://tl.net/forum/sc2-strategy/341878-thecore-advanced-keyboard-layout

You can easily switch to this keyboard setup even after playing years with the standard RTS or grid setup and you will be able to use twice the amount of control groups without having to stretch your fingers as much as in the standart hotkey setup.

The hotkey customization Aoe4 offers is not just worse than SC2. Its worse than Aoe2 DE and Aoe3 DE aswell. Its unacceptable.
You can set your own preferred colour and display it ingame and even change the colour of your enemy. Want to play violet against orange? You can do it! It sounds simple yet I don’t know any RTS which offers this customization.

Starcraft 2 has the best replay-viewing and casting UI. The current UI from Aoe4 is obviously inspired by Starcraft 2 UI, but its still not on par and missing a lot of features which SC2 has for many years.

Individual unit control is terrible in Aoe4. However in SC2, you can easily select hurt units by clicking on their portrait in your selection. You can select hundreds of units at once and one tab will show you up to 50 units. Their icons will change when damaged, so one click on the icon is enough to pull back hurt units - simple but extremely effective micro tasks are made easy. You can’t do this in Aoe4 at all, instead you have to find hurt units with your cursor, select them manually and pull them back.

Aoe4 does not support automated tournaments. SC2 does.

Aoe4 allows you to view the map before selecting your civ, which is a terrible idea and has a big impact on balance since players will tend to choose civilisation depending on the map instead of being able to play what they want.

Aoe4 does not have civilisation-specific mmr. SC2 does.

Aoe4 doesn’t even allow you to view the fully revealed map after the game. In Sc2, not only is the map fully revealed when the game ends, you can immediately open up the replay and play back the game to see what you or your opponent did. Aoe4 didn’t even have the option to view replays in the stress test. Thats one of the most important parts of any RTS.

Aoe4 offered no player profile, no statistics for maps, cvilisations, matchups. No chat with other players in the game browser. No channels for strategies, no clans.

There is probably a bunch of other stuff, but long story short, SC2 is the most developed RTS on the market more than 10 years after its release. You would think an RTS released in 2021 would build upon this foundation and improve it, but right now Aoe4 has less features than Starcraft 2. And Starcraft 2 is free to play nowadays.

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Thank you all for your feedback! It will be forwarded to the team.

Starcraft’s emergence as a spectator phenomenon is part of the historical birth of esport and Blizzard learned from it, developing SC2 with esports in mind: you can see how it informed their design decisions on gameplay, visuals, UI, and spectator features. We take a lot of inspiration from Starcraft and its development tenets.

The competitive scene and esports are an important aspect to any PvP game. For AoE4, we consider it vital. From game balance, to modding, to tournaments and support. We want to capture historical moments, feature our own set of micro and macro challenges and have a depth in strategy that rivals the best of the best!

Community feedback is integral to our process. Thank you for your thoughts, suggestions, and concerns.

Edit - we saw the opportunity to clarify and expand on some of our sentiments in our original post. Thanks everyone!

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Thanks a lot for listening. Recognition of us being heard is fantastic. The community combined with the devs is the best way of going forward.

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You know it is so refreshing to see actual Dev feedback in this forum.
Greatly appreciated, thx!

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I agree with your points except this:

You simply don’t want to play civs like mongols on black forest.
Also, I prefer different civs on open, closed off and naval maps, so your suggestion actually forces me to go with an allrounder civ like the English.

Elo system was not created by microsoft… lol, it was invented by Arpad Elo, a chess player and USCF member who created a new system for evaluating skill level through a points system relevant to how chess is scored. Elo is just a catch all for similar skill evaluating systems based on points and not ranks, similar to “Band-Aids” if you’re American

Yes… See my later reply

As a player mainly come from sc2. I enjoy almost everything in aoe4 except for the operation delay and rank system. I really want them to fix both of them.

“Historical elements” shouldn’t replace fun

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You disagree? How about you look it up and read something instead of stating blatant falsehoods. You can get an Encyclopedia, or any web search page and look up Elo. Besides, Glicko-2 is the now superior method of 1v1 rating systems.

Is reading hard for you? I said look at my later reply.

What I hate is people wanting AoE to be more competitive than it is now. The best thing about AoE is that it doesn’t feel competitive like starcraft. I love the large numbers of civilizations and all the unique units that each civilization has. But competitive people don’t want civs to have as many unique things. When I play a civilization, I want to feel that I am controlling the real unique civilization. Not just the same civilization with a different skin.

Competitive people are going to worry so much about balancing that they are going to want all civilizations to be the exact same. I don’t believe every civilization should be able to take on any civilization. I think they should all be unique with their own strengths where they do well against some civs, and worse against others.

So far, I have enjoyed what I have played for the most part. I am not as happy with this new focus on walls. tbh I never liked building walls, and I liked that the A.I. didn’t build walls either. but thats minor issue. They have done a good job with the civilizations having unique buildings, unique ways to age up, unique strengths and weaknesses. But I still think they don’t have enough unique units. And when civs have the same unit, they don’t even look different enough. And I think they could use a lot more unique research options.

In my opinion, AoE should focus on the uniqueness of each civilization, and then balance from there for competitive stuff. In a game like AoE where there are so many factions, it should be a rock paper scissors situation. Not every civilization should have just as strong cavalry as the mongols. I really hope they turn up the uniqueness and focus on competitive aspects after.

Please keep making each civ unique. give them more unique units and more unique research relevant to their history. its a fact that some civs had significant advantages over others in different types of environments and warfares. It should be just like that in the game. you shouldn’t be able to use one civilization in every single situation. that would totally ruin the game. don’t let the esports rts players ruin what makes AoE so much more fun and exciting than all the others. Having every civilization being unique will make every single match a new experience and it will always feel different every time you play. Don’t let AoE4 become an RTS that has players using the exact same faction, exact same build order, exact same units, for every single match. Make players switch up their play style, pick their civ and deck based on the specific match up and map environment. that’s the best part of AoE

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Thanks for posting this Wiki infrmation.

Hey, I am looking at the sales figures for Age of Empires. Hmm… I can tell you they are not correct. Thats really all I can say, since I don’t know where the figures come from :slight_smile:

Play on!

Rick Goodman
Lead Designer
Age of Empires 1

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Yes Black Forest and the Islands map should never be in a ranked map rotation. Its nice to have maps like these but obviously they should never be used for ranked play. Its not just mongols, the fact that you have a pond with fish right next to your TC which your opponent cannot contest is a huge balance issue. Because this favours civs which have economic Naval bonuses, like faster ship fishing ship production.

Ranked should work exactly like Starcraft 2. Select your civ first without seeing the map, but each ranked season has a map pool of 6-8 maps. And you should be able to veto maps which you do not like. Grandmaster players (top 200 of each Region) should not be able to veto maps.

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Why would you say something like this? Look at Starcraft 2. No one is asking for Terran to be able to warp in siege tanks anywhere and build Marines in pairs of 2.

Age of Empires 2 has too many civilisations, so they are bound to be very similar to each other. The correct decision is to have fewer but more distinct civs.

Since Age of Empires 4 is following Age of Empires 3 and Starcraft 2 design by adding more asymmetrical civilisations, the civilisations should feel somewhat different from each other.

Starcraft 2 has shown us that its possible to have a very well balanced game with a much higher degree of asymmetry. Its certainly not easy and it will take a long time. Its an ongoing process after all. But unlike Starcraft 2 had on release, Age of Empires 4 has thousands of experienced RTS players with knowledge to rely upon and give feedback.

All we need is developers who are open to discussion with the community. We also need a public test realm to allow players to test balance changes and give feedback before they get released into the game. Or simply add maps with different balance changes into the game so players can play on maps with new balance changes and give feedback.

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