and FF continues to be played
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Thats true even today :P, countries export out the better stuff so there is nothing left domestically
considering the unit is called the Highlander and the Highlanders were not cleared out until like the 1800s it felt kinda fine
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that answer no longer makes sense after the reworks to the civilizations and new units
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if you think so, i give up, its too hard. 3 different People have explained why they cant or should have that. I think thats enough explaining.
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There are many ways to introduce cannoneers to Spain and Portugal. I do not want them to break, I want balance and that is why I have explained how they should be in the case of Spain.
Sorry for my bad written English, forgive me
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I think it’s important to consider that Spain is a Fast Fortress Civ. They, like Portugal, are balanced around being good in age 3 and being weaker in age 2 so that other civs can try to take advantage of that weakness.
Buffing Spain’s age 2 play isn’t a good idea as if Spain’s age 2 actually becomes good enough that it becomes the go to strategy than there isn’t an exploitable weakness.
As of right now I think Portugal probably has the weakest age 2 out of all civs (assuming it’s a non-water map), but that’s fine because Portugal gets a strong age 3 and age 4.
Spain has a much more aggressive Fast Fortress, probably one of the strongest ones in the game, but in exchange they have to have a weaker age two (but Spain still has better age 2 options than Ports and possibly a couple of other civs).
Cannoneers are an Abus merc, they probably wouldn’t be OP if Portuguese got them, but Rodeleros + Cannoneers would be really strong (and much stronger than a Cannoneer + musketeer or Cannoneer + pike composition from Portugal). Which I believe is why others in this tread were saying Spain can’t have them until age 4. It’s also important to note that Spain gets cheaper shipments, meaning a card that lets Portugal get Cannoneers is arguably more expensive (and therefore weaker) than that same card would be for Spain.
I understand your counter argument was “make them only slightly better than Crossbowmen”, but at that point they’d be useless for the civs who currently make use of them. And making them only weaker for Spain would be kinda confusing.
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Instead of new card just rework the theater card that give ronin to a merc respective to that nation just like asian atonement card.
Port: cannoneer
Spain: cannoner
French: fusilier
German: landsknecht
Or anything that will not conflict with merc contractor, merc camp or other card that enable merc to be trained
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There has already been talk on the forum about releasing a Spanish arquebusier unit to replace the crossbow, the pity is that the developers have already used the arquebusier skin for the cannoneers. So I don’t care how they do it.
It will just be slightly better than a Crossbowman and instead of using the xbox/pikes strategy it will be haquebuisser/pikes.
There are civilizations that have everything and do not need to reach the third age because they are very strong like India.
I also know that unfortunately in aoe 3 Spain is a melee anticav civilization and as we are complaining they are taking out anticav from a distance (musk) because they don’t want to break it with good guerrillas.
And the confusing thing is that Spain does not have cannoneers from the beginning. We Spaniards who like history have always wanted arquebusiers for Spain, just as a pikeman from the tercio does not exist without arquebusiers. I’ve been playing since 2005 and at that time I knew it was impossible for the arquebusiers to get in since but they released the definitive edition I saw that it was possible so I’ll keep trying.
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Good suggestion. The whole Ronin thing has always been rather out of place.
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Yeah, I get that.
Arquebusiers should have just been an Archaic gunpowder unit available to all Euros/Asian civs first time round. Everyone used Arquebusiers/Calivermen in whatever form/term. Spanish (and Portuguese) are some of the most iconic with their Morion helmets and being part of the Tercios.
The problem with Arquebusiers as a unit type is unit role/bloat - unless you had them as a Replacement Shipment like Landwher/Rangers, replacing Crossbowmen (as an Archaic bowmen Light Infantry tag to Archaic Gunpowder Light Infantry tag), they don’t really have a role to fill.
Canoneers (as an aside, the name always seems incorrect - Heavy Arquebusier would be more accurate) should be available in some form or another though I’ve no idea how we would stop it from horribly imbalancing them.
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This is the best option, no shipment so spain don’t become OP but allow training through this card.
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I believe the biggest mistake Ensemble made was not enabling compat in (then)Discovery Age. In Discovery Age you could have trained all archaich units and have one improvement in the (then)Colonial Age and then go full gunpowder after that, but now it’s too late for that, it would super break the current balance
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and then have games end in 5 mins? unless the units are super weak and borderline useless it will just make the game faster then it already is and the game is pretty fast
Case in point: maceman/axeman in Age of Empires 1, Militiaman in Age of Empires 2
Edit: maybe add villager bonus against archaic units? They use muskeets to hunt, so I don’t know.
Yeah, I completely agree with that. I would have absolutely loved renaissance Age I combat! Arquebusiers, Crossbowmen, pikes clashing with Demi-Lancer and Men-at-Arms armoured cav
Heck, there are models for Age I military buildings 
The only way that could ever be implemented is by having it as a game mode - one mode is your ‘Exploration Start’ and the other ‘Conflict Start’. The former being the current gameplay and the latter allowing military buildings and current archaic units plus archaic predecessors for other units (Demi-Lancers/Men-at-arms before Hussars and Archaic Cuirassed types - which were originally pistol cav, as early Dragoons).
Anyone, that’s a nice thought but is not going to happen. I l’d love to see a ‘Renaissance Age’ mod though!
For RMS, you can always use RMS triggers to enable barracks and archaic units in Age 1. In scenarios just use triggers
Edit: it would be cool to have Age 1 barracks models for all build sets
Yeah, they skipped that part of the story.
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yeah borderline useless melee units that has to lose to villagers in fights.
they had to give all the native treasure units in the game a x.25 multi against vils and hero units in age 1 because that was considered too much advantage.
If you already have range units going around harassing vils in age 1 a single dead vil would be game ending.
The Spanish also have no Spanish conquerors to train (laughter)
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Yeah, it is a shame. However, I think technically it is possible to support a both Renaissance and Napoleonic units even in the current 5-Age system. For example:
Age 1 (Discovery Age): no combat barring explorer and treasure guardian scuffles.
Age 2 (Colonial Age): can create Pikeman(HI), Crossbowman(LI), Scout(HC), Outrider(LC); can ship archaic elite units (Halberdier, Arquebusier, Lancer, Pistolier, Archaic Artillery) from Home City.
Age 3 (Enlightenment Age): can create archaic elite units; archaic unit upgrade generally ends here; can ship elite Enlightenment units (Grenadiers, Cuirassier, Enlightenment Artillery); can research the production of Musketeer(HI), Skirmisher(LI), Hussar(HC), Dragoon(LC).
Age 4 (Industrial Age): can create elite Enlightenment units.
Age 5 (Imperial Age): final age; maybe can ship elite Imperial units (Breech-loader Rifleman, Carbine Cavalry, Rifled Artillery).
This way:
- We get archaic unit combat in Age 2, and Napoleonic unit combat in Age 4.
- In Age 3 represents a transition phase, where Napoleonic units must be researched before production. This helps control the power spike.
- Elite units are initially only available through Home City shipment before being available for production in the next age. This indicates a delay in technological/political/military propagation from the Home City to your colony.
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