Ok then hypotheticly if they change the rate so cows and sheeps or general livestock counts all the same and maybe do max 10 garrison dark so they cant garrison more in a second mill 20 feudal castle and imp i dunno but they can keep the same rate but qlso not overdoe it on maps with like alot of livestock what would make the garrison Aspect broken
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I don’t understand what you want to say actually.
I think it’s just the easiest way to reduce the food income in dark age. Then we need no further adjustments cause then extra mills are a heavy investment that can easily be punished.
What i ment Was that garrisoned livestock like cows sheep or buffalloa should all have the same food income rate
As for dark age reducment i would say if the food rates would be applied 8 garrison space should be enough per farm
As for abuse of it well the standard measure is arabia and since its fairly balanced when it comes to livestock thats fine
Otherwise in nomad maps it could get a bit out of hands perhaps
Reduce the income rate per food on herdables(balances cows and sheep)
Reduce speed on shivs. They’re irrationally fast
That’s it. Re-assess if needed. Don’t nerf them more than that, they are not auto winning games. They just have a huge early eco lead. If you nerf them more than that you risk another step lancer balance change.
We have a number of extremely strong civs. There’s no need to over nerf everything that isn’t the same as the stagnant meta.
If you touch their berries it hurts mid elos more than high elo and the civ is already just doing ok at mid elo. We don’t need yet more unused mid elo civs due to how difficult they are to play.
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And please increase the collision size of the shrivs. It doesn’t sound like it’s important but it is, really.
(also,a again, the 50 % more bonus damage is a bit too much)
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Just reduce their sheep bonus and remove BBC and that’s it, no further than that. No one wanna see another horrible “steppe lancer” kind of balancing.
Their Cheap 2 handed swordsmen are really bad, one of the worst in the game even at 30 food. 50% bonus on mounted units seems big but in reality it only gives camel +9 attack vs cav, which is pale compared to pike and halb, and Gujara gets non of these, so it’s fair. Since I agree that they should not have BBC, their siege elephant should remain unchanged.
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No Bombard Cannons means this civ is straight up trash for Arena and Black forest.
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They’re a very cheap counter to eagle spam, that’s the problem. i’m not gonna say i’m sorry for meso civs that spam eagle warriors, but it proves that Gurjaras have response to everything.
They didnt need them with Chakram Throwers
Why would a 7 melee armor camel be needed ? it’s only useful to get better trades against other melee units. You already shred apart most cavalry units without the 50% bonus and you will never pick a fight against units like champions, halbs. The problem is not the camels, it’s the shrivamsha rider in imperial, why would you give all defense upgrades to a cav unit that can dodge arrows ? There’s no logic behind this. Cav units are cheaper but they’re fully upgraded lmao.
Chinese and mayans are very strong but they have very clear weaknesses, I agree they need to be somewhat tuned down a bit (like 25-30 food cost for eagles), but britons and franks ? come on dude I can’t take you seriously when you say this, I hope you’re not the kind of dude that checks bs WRs on stat websites.
Gurjaras on the other hand have no clear weaknesses. Have you seen straydog spamming the ladder with a gurjaras forward ? And he beats everyone with it every time ?
what does that have to do with imperial shivs? as said before, its the early eco thats destroying most people
they arent. even if they have the full armour, they lack the attack upgrade, and they’re a melee orientated civ. berbers dont lack anything and they’re even cheaper? so eff your one sided logic
thats about as “bad” as comparing to one player’s achievements…
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Chakram throwers is a unique unit, you can’t spam it in castle age like longswords. This is the most stupid thing i’ve ever seen in a tech tree. The only problem with a longsword switch early castle age was its heavy food cost compared to eagles, which are way easier to spam on 3-4 barracks early castle age. With gurjaras, for a cheap cost of 30f/20g you can spam this unit like a dumbass.
you mean a cheap cost of 650 stone, 200food and 400 gold, nevermind all the LS tech itself… sure real cheap! im sure thats totally whats helping them against feudal massed eagle all-ins… deleting those mesos “lol”
depending on how generous we’re being thats close to 40 to 80 LS needed before this “cheap” tech pays itself back… so cheap
we can all use exaggeration for the purpose of being right!
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Couldn’t agree more. I don’t know why old civs seem to get such a free pass when there are such clear outliers like Franks who are consistently performing top tier on every tournament + ladder.
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i think devs are so afraid of being accused of going “pay to win”, that they almost unanimously resort to erring on the side of underpowered for newer civs
while bohemians HAD a stellar win rate on arena, it was still a niche map, no other DLC civ has ever done exceedingly well.
Like how lol, ask any pro player, both civs are considered too strong with very few weaknesses.
Have you played any TG, these civs are like must pick otherwise you lose (because no other paladin/arbalest civ can’t compete with them).
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As I said, there is no moment in the game where gurjaras feel weaker than any other civ. Early eco is a problem among many others.
Armour upgrades are the most important ones in the game and the gurjaras are not melee orientated since they have bracer for skirms and elephants. Berbers have cheaper camels overall but they don’t have a 50% bonus against cav ? Do you realize what 50% is ? you kill a paladin and half your hps remain and I don’t even want to see what is does to hussars and how good it trades against melee units that don’t have a bonus against camels.
Well you should check the rest of the ladder then, Just pointed out a guy abusing them and getting from 2250-2k3 to like 2k4+
All you’re thinking about is “paying back the tech”, you clearly don’t seem to understand what a 30f/20g unit does. Gurjaras is not the civ to rush imp to get an arbalester timing, it’s the kind of civ where you want to get your castle age unique tech asap and spam units with a decent eco, like 70 to 90 villagers. In combination with elephants, camels or shrivamsha riders, you have the perfect combo that you can just spam in your opponent eco and it doesn’t matter if you lose your units or not since they’re way cheaper.
Chinese can lose imperial to better civs with SOs or BBCs, and they can struggle early game if you get lamed or have to face a very agressive build order early feudal.
Mayans can struggle against champion/onager, they also lack hussars so they don’t have a raid trash unit. They can get overwhelmed if they lack the castles or the stone walls to lock parts of the map. They also struggle against scouts/skirms and can lose of they don’t get the chance to transition into castle age eagles.
Yes i’ve played many team games against the best aoe2 players. You’re only seeing arabia. There are a ton of other maps where britons and franks are not dominant. Team games are way more interesting when you don’t think about arabia all the time.
So only lame Chinese… otherwise this civ becomes insane, said by Hera Himself. and SO and BBC… good luck getting that on open maps…
Man go and check how insane are the Mayans eco, +1 vill lead, longer lasting res, and a broken discount on foot archers, combine all + eagles, you basically stop anyone to get such army, even Goths (their supposed worst match up) can’t even win vs Mayans because Mayans OPness stop them getting to the point Goths win over Mayans.
Just because in other settings are less dominant doesn’t mean they are allowed to be soo OP at TGs open maps, both are just unfun and boring to play against all time atm.
Bohemians are still broken on closed maps, and I can see Poles and Turks being the next ones to be nerfed for Arena (Both have like 58% WR on that map lol).