Why is the Chinese Civilization classified as a Gunpowder civilization

[NekyChoi]

I agree that the Koreans in game is heavily gunpowder-oriented.

As a Korean, I can say that the Koreans in game don’t need the Fire Lancers. Historically, Koreans during the Joseon Dynasty which is the main theme in game were more for Hand Cannoneers. All other gunpowder units are okay considering history, but Fire Lancers? Historically not that proper.

If we need to remove some other gunpowder units from the Koreans in game, let me say the Bombard Towers. They’re very expensive and the Koreans already have their unique technology, Eupseong, which increases the range of Watch Tower line, and that’s much useful and effective. Bombard Towers are just no more than a wasted building. Of course, they can be quite dangerous in late games, but most players would rather choose Heavy Rocket Carts with Shinkichon upgrade than the luxury towers. Anti-Bombard Tower units are only Siege Weapons, which are easily removed by Rocket Carts anyway. No need to use Bombard Towers for the Korean civ.

Thus, I want to say that the Koreans in game don’t need the Fire Lancers and Bombard Towers.

Turtle Ships, Hand Cannoneers, Rocket Carts, Bombard Cannons, and Cannon Galleons are enough considering both the game and real history. If we were to remove even one more, I’d choose the Bombard Cannons. Instead, the Koreans should’ve been more Archery-oriented including the Cavalry Archer line.

The Chinese in game should absolutely be more gunpowder unit-oriented.

[SMUM15236]

What bugs me the most is their Fire Lancer bonus together with Fire Ship. Fire Ship 5%/10% speed in Castle/Imperial is a joke when all Berbers ship moves 10% faster from Dark Age. And without Gambeson, 5%/10% faster speed for Fire Lancer is negligible.

I don’t understand why they didn’t get the discount as civ bonus. No one has a discount on fire ship in both wood and gold. And same goes to Fire Lancer. Cheaper fire ship would make Chinese a bit more appealing in water and hybrid maps where Chinese now is just bad due to their start.

[JasuniSmith]

@SMUM15236

I don’t understand why they didn’t get the discount as civ bonus. No one has a discount on fire ship in both wood and gold. And same goes to Fire Lancer. Cheaper fire ship would make Chinese a bit more appealing in water and hybrid maps where Chinese now is just bad due to their start.

On maps where Players use their starting TC to collect from fish, Chinese are fairly strong. The faster gather rate reduces idle TC time, which means more villagers, which makes up for needing more wood than other civs do to start fishing.

[_Dustyacer1]

while i agree with you that they are strong on african clearing and a few tournament maps. thats not really the main reason imo. not that im saying that i like smum’s suggestion but their water isnt bad now with faster fires and the new dragon boat.

[RatcicleFan]

@800buthappy

Many many years ago, in the earliest version of AoE II, people were asking why there was no cannon or gun or siege engineer of China. And MS replied that for “game balance”.

That was Ensemble Studios

@800buthappy

Now they remove the camels but still refuse to add cannon, gun or siege engineer back to China. So they lied. They are not for balance, they just want to make China as a weaker civ in the game.

And this was Forgotten Empires