After all this time, I really think that all the European civs could use an age 3 culverin shipment. Most civs can send either a 1 or 2 falconet, so why not add in a 1 or 2 culverin shipment when it directly counters the falc? Especially when the Japanese can send the 2 flaming arrows, which have more range and deal bonus damage to artillery. Currently, to counter a two falc push the best thing to do is to build an artillery foundry and train them yourself, which costs 300 hundred wood + 100w, 400g per culv. Just make it so you can send them from the HC, I’ve lost so many matches to the basic musk + falc push.
flaming arrows do not have multipliers vs artillery in the fortress age, only once upgraded in age 4.
the reason a culv shipment is bad is that it would completely ruin the entire purpose of a falc shipment. no one would ship them anymore. it also would even further put no-culv civs at a disadvantage (looking at haud and Ethiopia). requiring counterplay with cav or training culvs is healthy for making the falc meta remotely viable
I’d have liked a culv shipment with malta because they are defensive and have no 2 falc shipment, also the fixed gun is only worth 700 res in fortress so that’s a bad card.
I was wrong with the flaming arrows getting bonus damage in Age 3, my bad. But they still have the range increase, which gives them a massive advantage over Euro falcs. Also, not all European civs get the 2 falc shipment, some only get the 1 infinite which means you basically have to waste a shipment just to be competitive. Having a 1 or 2 culver in shipment (even costing gold) would allow turtle civs or civs with the 1 rack shipment to be somewhat competitive against a regular 2 facl shipment. As for the other civs, if you think it’s that bad give them a culverin shipment. The Iroquois already get so many units from other civs that I don’t really think this would change how their shipments work. Same goes for the other civ you mentioned
I haven’t played Malta yet but that does sound like a legitimate gripe, especially when the 2 facl shipment is wok 1k resources and not everyone get is.
Malta get 1 fixed gun instead but a fixed gun only costs 700 resources like an age 2 shipment so it’s a bad card to send.
Not only do they get the bonus with the age IV upgrade wich is not free btw but also their 30 range is after the imperial upgrade, before that they have 28 range wich is only 2 more than falcs.
Now, it´s no way an advantage over european civs, starting with:
- Falcs cost 500, so the shipment is worth 1000 resources / Flaming arrows cost 400 resources, the shipment worth 800 resources
- Falcs have 200 hp / Flaming arrows have 175 hp
- Falcs have 100 siege attack / FA have 75
- Falcs have 3 area damage / FA have 2
- Falcs have a rate of fire of 4 / FA of 6, that means, that´s 50% faster so 50% more damage, while FA shoot twice, falcs shoot thrice
And even if FA have 28 range instead of 26, wich is not very significant:
- Falcs shoot instantly / FA have a delay in their attack
So if they start shooting earlier, the time they spend to shoot, the falcs get closer and shoot instantly, and this is when out of range, when in range that is most of the time, instant shoot make a more significant difference than 28 range
A shipment of 2 culverins would be fine. Also this does not discourage the sending of falconets because after all, all units have their counter.
Ships 3 → 2 → 1 Gatling Gun(s); Resets after every three uses (4th, 7th, 10th, etc.)
It would be a good way to deter and counter US gatling guns that can brazenly use that card in age III.
3 gattling guns then 2 gattling guns in one shipment? What the hell, who thought that was a good idea? Is it an age 3 or 4 card. If age 4 then it’s okay
It doesn’t exist because it would devalue Artillery Foundries and Falconet shipments too much.
My preference would be to branch out and give an early Culverin alternative.
“It doesn’t exist because it would devalue Artillery Foundries and Falconet shipments too much.”. That is the equivalent of me saying that we should get rid of age 3 skirm and drag shipments since they devalue musk and hussar shipments respectively. Players will simply have to adapt, as it stands the only way to reliably counter the 2 falc shipment is to send them yourself, which makes for really lame gameplay especially when some civs don’t even have that option.
As for devaluing art foundries, how? You can still make petards to get rid of forts/tcs, open up walls etc. Grenadiers would still be unused, so nothing changes there. Falconets and culvs would still have a place in the game as anti infantry and anti artillery respectively.
so is your idea to give everyone, including aztec, inca, all of the civs a culv shipment? its really lame gameplay if some civs don’t even have that option, right?
Those civs are supposed to have their own anti artillery units. The Aztecs can send Age 3 Arrow Knights for example. The problem is that the community unanimously agrees that they suck though and the devs don’t seem to have any intentions of buffing them. So they already have those units available, India can send the siege elephant which is great at taking out falcs.
He is from age III. Although machine guns are supposed to be inferior to falconets and for this reason 3 are sent instead of 2.
The age 3 falc shipment is a big power spike because it lets you get falcs without needing to spend the time or resources to build a foundry and train cannons. It gives you a window to push while you have the advantage.
If you can just quickly ship the best counter to that, the power spike is basically nullified. It also bypasses the need to make artillery foundries at that point in the game, delaying them until the late game.
It’s not at all equivalent to a skirm or goon shipment because you will already have the infrastructure in place to produce their counters, and won’t need to invest in an expensive foundry.
All the arguments I hear about why an Age 3 Culv shipment is a good idea actually tells me more why it is instead a better idea to give the two falc shipments to more civilizations. More generalized 2 falc shipments would address all the balance concerns posted here without any of the myriad headaches that a culv shipment on Age 3 would trigger.
For that matter, I also think that the three hussars shipment should become a vanilla civ standard once again.
Again, it doesn’t nullify the need to make writerly foundries. You can still make petard, more falcs and culverins. As for your other point, the only way to reliably counter it is to send 1/2 falcs yourself. Countering rock with rock as opposed to paper is not a good game design. You can easily have a solid push without falcs, and if you don’t send them then you’re opponent has just wasted a shipment.
No, because as stated before countering rock with rock is not good game design, you need a paper. Players can adapt to and overcome this new cult shipment by instead opting to either not send falcs or use them smarter. Doing so would basically negate an opponents shipment
I think it could work paying a few coins as it happens with the siege elephants of the Indians. Example:
Sending 2 culverins at age 3 Cost 300 coins.