I know this is probably a bit late to the party, but this was the only campaign I didn’t finish back in the day (I remember the second mission being my nightmare) and playing DE campaigns chronologically as they take place, I finally reached it.
I had to literally dig for the original cutscenes on youtube as I clearly remember Chayton talking to Amelia early on, and that still hasn’t happened though I’m where I used to be (those 15 years ago or so). I thought I went crazy but nope, she was actually there.
I understand the changes to represent Native Americans better, but why the hell was a key character and the protagonist’s literal mother cut out of the story? The changes in DE generally range from “understandable” to “almost hilarious but whatever” to me, but this is the first one that actually annoyed me.
Because by 1860s Amelia was already very old (she was born in the 1780s-1790s, it is estimated that she would have been 70-80 years old, so it is most likely that she was at home instead of being on the frontier with Chayton as happened in the original campaign)…Chayton would be more of a protagonist (in the original story it was said that he was too young to fight in the Civil War, but now they corrected it that he was more old to fight in it (calculate that Chayton was born in the 1830s-1840s, so by the Civil War, Chayton would be in his 20s-30s)…
Ustedes que juegan la campaña en inglés diganmé que tal está la cosa. Los que juegan en otros idiomas no coincide para nada los diálogos con los subtítulos.
What they did in Spanish is awful. The old parts are Spanish while the DE changes are in English. In the other campaigns the just kept the old audio, even if it means the characters say “iroqués” but in the subtitles it shows"Haudenosaunee".
But the Shadow campaign is just a total mess.
Native Americans were objectively never offended in the campaign. They were shown as antagonists at first, but later become allies of the hero when he redeems himself and finds himself in a moral dilemma.
This was one of the best campaigns in the game and they ruined it.
I am open to a better cultural and historical representation of American civilizations, and any other civilization, but to say that the original plot of the campaign in question is offensive is simply ridiculous and childish.
I reached the third mission and now I remember why I never finished this campaign, and now they gave me new reasons to want not to. The second mission is the worst mission in the game, and the third one is already looking just as bad.
And the “changes”… oh god, I did look up the original cutscenes and it does look like they changed this from an actually nuanced story to an almost fairytale and something that desperately screams “we want Twitter to like us”. This is the first time something like this has successfully pissed me off, impressive job.
True, originally the campaign was set in the Red Cloud War (1866-1868) and the Black Hills War (1876) between the Lakotas and the American army and they ruined it in 3 DE by introducing the conflict between the Lakotas and settlers was a product of the Reno outlaw gang (which existed in real life, but they were 4 brothers, not an army of outlaws)…
my personal gripe with the DE shadow campaign is a more fundamental one, the old campaign had neutral perspective, no faction was presented as innocent and each played a part in starting the conflict, with clear motivations on both sides.
in DE tho, lakota are the innocent victims (which they certainly weren’t irl, just as colonists weren’t, both sides commited war crimes) with the reno gang being used as spark for conflict, because ig the white man bad propaganda has to be pushed for twitter mob, while making the campaign’s perspective blantanly obviously lakota sided throughout
there was obvious anti-colonialism message in old campaign as well, but it didn’t disrespect the player’s intelligence like this
Of course, I would have preferred them to do historical battles with the Haudenosaunee and Lakotas, rather than disrupt the entire shadow campaign and make too much of a chest-thumping and progressive morality out of this…
I found it particularly weird that the Sheriff (the antagonist who’s name escapes me atm) kept calling the Lakota by that name in the new version. I’m pretty sure he was supposed to be kinda racist, right?
Yeah, Sheriff Billy Holme is much more racist than in The WarChiefs , since Holme did not make any racist comments about the Sioux, and made it clear with Chayton that he would not judge him for being half Sioux. By stark contrast, Holme repeatedly makes racist comments in the Definitive Edition and quickly sees his friendship with Chayton disintegrate immediately after the ten year time skip, while it took Holme ordering a massacre in the original game for Chayton to turn on him. In The WarChiefs , Holme’s greed was explicitly stated to have come from the gold found in the Black Hills, whereas the Definitive Edition gives Holme a reputation for greed and horrible crimes from the Civil War.
I like the idea with the Reno gang (or if it’s 4 brothers)
I DO NOT like the remade historical battle about George Armstrong Custer vs Crazy Horse.
I really love playing for the Lakota and I like their design. Please, return the Crazy Horse.
The Reno Gang, also known as the Reno Brothers Gang and The Jackson Thieves, were a group of criminals that operated in the Midwestern United States during and just after the American Civil War. Though short-lived, the gang carried out the first three peacetime train robberies in U.S. history. Most of the stolen money was never recovered.
The gang was broken up by the lynchings of ten of its members by vigilante mobs in 1868. The murders led to an international diplomatic incident with Canada and Great Britain, international newspaper coverage, and a general public uproar, though no one was ever identified or prosecuted for the lynchings.
The Reno Brothers have been portrayed in at least three films, including Elvis Presley’s film debut in Love Me Tender (1956), in which he starred as Clint Reno, and Rage at Dawn (1955), featuring Randolph Scott.
The Reno Gang was the first “Brotherhood of Outlaws” in the United States. They terrorized the Midwest for several years and inspired a host of other similar gangs who copied their crimes, leading to several decades of high-profile train robberies. Their gang attracted several new members after the end of the war. They started by robbing and murdering travellers in Jackson County and began to branch out to other counties, where they raided merchants and communities.
In the Definitive Edition version of the Act II: Shadow campaign, Crazy Horse was replaced by Frank Warbonnet, who is Chayton Black’s uncle. There were two reasons for the change: because Crazy Horse may not be portrayed without permission from his maternal family, and in order to focus on Chayton Black’s Lakota background.
Despite being removed from the campaign, Crazy Horse still exists as a Scenario Editor unit. He also has an unused Compendium image.
Who can get this permission from??? Why haven’t the developers asked yet maternal family?
And no need to rethink history Crazy Horse vs George Armstrong Custer
I remember hearing about that. Do we know anything more about the details on how having to get permission is even a thing? Is it not true that at a certain point people’s likeness etc, enter’s the public domain? This seems unusual for a historical figure. I don’t believe I’m aware of any other similar situations for other historical figures.
The family did not want their ancestor to appear in a game, so they simply replaced him… I think the same thing happened in his day with Peacemaker (the Cree Leader in Civ 6) or with Jonas Savimbi and Manuel Noriega with CoD Black Ops 2 in 2014…
I require a quote and a link to the family (on Facebook for example). Only evidence will calm me down. According to my memory, this was invented by an expert in the history of Native Americans. I just want a fact with proof of an open answer from the family of Crazy Horse heirs/