# Why We Hate Japan as a Civ

I understood exactly the point you are trying to make. I am just pointing out how flawed it is.

No cards make banks cheaper. Also you can only have 5 while you can get out 20 shrines.

37.5x20 is 750 per minute

140×5 is 700

So shrines win is resources gathered

I believe there is an age 2 card that makes banks 15% cheaper and have 100% hp but I don’t think many people take it since it’s likely better just to send wood crates/bank wagon.

Banks gather at 2.75 c/s so
2.75 * 5 * 60 = 825 g/minute.

Heavenly kami Toshugu shrine boosted shrines with 4 medium sized hunts gather 0.48 c/s so
20 * 0.48 * 60 = 576 c/minute

Toshugu shrine base is 0.35 c/s with 8 medium hunts and heavenly kami is 1.165 c/s
1.165 * 60 = 69.9 so including Toshugu shrine it is ~646 c/minute

This is of course assuming Japan has hunts on all of the shrines which isn’t always the case in some games.

Japan does have access to tempo reforms in age 4 which boosts shrines/Toshugu by 423 c/minute but Dutch also have 2 factories that when upgraded provide 858 c/minute in addition to bank cards and tulip speculation at the cost of less villagers.

(75 wood / 0.48) / 60 = 2.6 minutes

Assuming 350f 350w ~= 700c, a bank pays off in (700 / 2.75) / 60 = 4.2 minutes.

I get this topic isn’t about comparing Dutch to Japan I just thought the numbers were a little off.

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Yes but u need to run around for hunts while u can place all your banks around your TC and basicly wall yourself with them. Technically shrines may win - practicaly - banks win. Banks are more profitable at the end of the day.

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Watch GiveUAnxiety play brits and come back to tell me about how Japan Eco is OP. Brits were on the top since forever and that is for a reason - they have the best eco boom. I’ll swap the shrines for those +1 vill houses anytime.

Instead of walking around like a madman trying to shrine the map - gimme those houses. Build a house get a free villie. Precious

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Thanks I was doing my math on the other guys numbers lol. But yeah we’re not saying that dutch are not strong. The issue that Japan can just ever strategy and do it rather well.

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We are not saying there eco is op. It’s just very good. Their musks are very good. Their skirms are very good. Their cav is very good. Their art is very good. They are not op in anyone strat they just do everything very well. Unlike other civs that can only do one or two things well and alot of the time worse then japan and they fail everywhere else.

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All Japan needs Is one unit to be nerfed a bit. They maybe it will pretty well balanced and they might even unban it

Brits are doing fine in absolutely everything too. They can counter early rushes, they can musk/gren rush, they can ff, they can FI. Idk what are you talking about mate for real. Its seems like people got this psychological complex on “just hating on Japan” because 12 years ago Japan was OP and, new players seem to get easily into that crowd mentality and absorb that complex rather quickly. Where are my grenadiers, i want grenadiers too if thats the case. Japan can do good everything my a**.

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Non-Japan players think Japan is OP, Japan players say UP and like to compare to British or Bank.
This situation is still the same even complainer and protector keep changing when this game still have players or Japan doesn’t get hard nerfed .

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It’s a fact…

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Try that against the hardest AI or a competent human, see how it works out for you.

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A Japanese rush strategy. We not saying Japan has the best rush but it’s can do a rush well. (Mind the click bait thumbnail)

Brits have a Skirm weaknesses since the longbow is only strong till age 3. I suggest doing the same thing to Japan. Longbow is not a S or A tier unit, it is good early and then only used for support. Yumi is S tier and strong all throughout the game.

*Before anyone jumps in about Yumi archers read the earlier arguments since Yumi are a suggestion to fix the main point of this forum.

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Yeah that picture isnt that good of a situation, at 6 min and you only have 1 samurai + the ashi shipment. any age 2 boom civ will be hitting you with about 30 units right about then, you also have no map control so the other side will just have an fb right in your face.

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Your calculations are good but f, w and c are not gathered at the same rate

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Every civ can perform a rush due to the nature of the card system.

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What?

I was exemplifying that it’s totally possible to have 10 shrines, market, consulate, barracks before 6 min. Already sending ashigarus from HC, to defend also.

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You probably one of those people who think that the Dutch Halberdier Rush is good.

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Hey guys, Spirit of the Law here”