Hello. I’m a player who doesn’t know much about Western European history.
While looking into the new civilizations in the upcoming DLC, I learned something interesting.
I knew that the Saxons were one of the Germanic peoples who migrated to Britain and became part of the Anglo-Saxons, but apparently only some of them migrated there, while the majority remained in northern Germany.
I also learned that they later established the Duchy of Saxony.
Then I remembered that in the AoE2 Barbarossa campaign, both Saxony and Henry the Lion appear, and historically they were Saxon.
Does this mean that, after the DLC is released, their civilization could be changed from Teutons to Saxons?
There’s one more thing I’m curious about.
If that happens, the Teutons, which have traditionally represented the Holy Roman Empire in AoE2, would effectively be split into Saxons and Teutons.
Do you think we could see even more civilizations split off from the Holy Roman Empire in the future?
History experts, please enlighten me!
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I sure hope they represent all saxons ingame.
We should in some point get couple more civis to diversify HRE.below is where we stand as of now
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There are 3 types of Saxons and the civ does represent them differently well.
- Anglo Saxons, so the ancestors of the English. This is what they manly represent.
- The original Saxons in North West Germany, todays state of Lower Saxony. Since they are pretty similar to the Anglo Saxons until 1000 AD they are the best fit.
- The modern Saxons in eastern Germany that are not actually related to the old Saxons. They are not really represented by the new civilisation. It’s probably better to use the Teutones for them.
Henry the Lion is actually the reason why the name “Saxon” moved east. So he should be represented with the Saxon civilisation. The Dutch of Saxon was split into what later became the states Lower Saxony, Saxony-Anhalt and Saxony.
Romans definitely don’t represent the Italians of that time anymore, they should also just be the Italian civ.
Goths aren’t the best fit for Bavarians, but neither are Teutones, same with Suabia. But Burgundy is a good representation of Lorraine.
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True but the Barbarossa campaign still has goths for austria so I placed them there for now.
Adding bavarians austrians swiss would be more than enough for the HRE.
Yeah, if Austrians/Bavarians are represented by Goths, I see no reason not to change Henry’s civ to Saxons, even if they are a bit more early medieval based (so are Goths after all)
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I think half of the community would riot if they would make a Central European civilisation DLC now.
Henry is currently Teutones not Goths. Changing him to Saxons (as well the “Saxons” faction) would make sense. It would also add more diversity to the campaign.
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Not Henry, Austrians in Barbarossa 1 are Goths. Henry is definitely closer to Saxons than Austria to Goths.
oh yeah your right, I read your post wrong.
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Every time the Goths filled in as a stand-in civi the real one ended up getting added to the game later.
Poland in Barbarossa second mission was goths then slavs then poles.
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Goths aren’t even that good approximation of Austrians NGL. Maybe the devs thought all Upper Germans were big into infantry like the Swiss, but Bavarians and Austrians (one people at that point really) were more into heavy cavalry.
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So this is from the aoe2 wiki.
- The Austrians in this scenario are Goths, whereas the Austrians in the fourth and fifth scenarios of the Kotyan Khan campaign are Teutons.
- This is historically accurate, as before being controlled by the Holy Roman Empire, Austria was occupied by both Visigoths and Ostrogoths. Also, Goths in the game speaking German language represent the fact that Austria is a German-speaking country.
Goths were long gone from Austria by the time HRE got there lol. They were replaced by Slavs first (Bavaria Slavica) then by Bavarians
I don’t think so, they would represent the Anglo-Saxons, but they do have some AIs from the Duchy of Saxony, like Henry the Lion, and some others from the Renaissance, like Magnus I and II and Francis I and II of Saxony, and obviously the first part of the Albertine line of the House of Wettin…
Wettins are from wrong Saxony iirc
Yes, I know… I’m talking about Saxony in general…
Teutones are the best representation of all Germans, besides Saxons, starting around 1000 AD. Maybe Franks for the Franconians.
For scenarios from before 1000 AD Goths are ok, maybe also the new Saxons. The Goths castle looks really out of place in Central Europe now though.
Knights were important in German armies around that time. Not as much as the French though that started the Knight think a few centuries earlier.
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They were probably made Goths for diversity reasons, so that the scenario isn’t a giant mirror match (Bohemian civ didn’t exist yet)
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Are devs planning to rework Goths?
According to this map: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ee/Britain_peoples_circa_600.svg?utm_source=en.wikipedia.org&utm_campaign=index&utm_content=original
The Saxons invaded england and settled in the Wessex, Essex, Sussex, etc (West Saxon / East Saxon / South Saxon). They are originating from south of the Juthland (Danemark) if we take where they came from.
As it seems ingame the Saxons are going to represent the “Anglo-Saxons” and use the Western-European architecture set, they don’t represent the Saxons from south of Juthland, or it’s their Feudal age that represent it.
The Castle and Imperial age of the civ represent the time when they were in England.
The reason why they won’t represent the Saxons from the mainland is due to the Architecture set. The mainland Saxons would need either the new viking architecture or the Eastern European architecture set.
Goths have also that same dilema, they originate from Scandinavia, but migrated, same for Franks, Teutons, Sicilian, etc.
It’s not like West and Central Euro architecture are somehow THAT different from each other though.
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