The data shows that across the board, these four civilizations(Portugese, Koreans, Magyars, Ethiopians) are the worst or close to the worst, and not many are raising the issue of buffing them to make them a little more appealing. Their winrates are as terrible as less than 44%, for pros as well as beginners(38% for Portugese).
Urgent buffs are needed to Organ Guns, Turtle Ships, Shotels, Cornivian Army tech and of course buffs to the Koreans, Portugese, Magyars, Ethiopians civ bonuses. I believe their Bonuses, UU and UTs could be made stronger for making them viable civs, rather than giving them access to more units(thereby reducing their uniqueness).
Portugese :
-25% Gold on all units, -15% too weak right now
Organ Guns : +3(Elite +5) Attack, to make them on slightly better than Jannisaries.
Koreans :
-20% Wood on all non-siege units, same reason as portugese, too weak discount right now.
Turtle Ships : Cost down to 150W 150G from 180W 180G
Magyars :
Villagers have +1 attack (could be fun, compensates for fewer wolves)
Cornivian Army : Cost to 200F 150G down from 200F 300G considering it doesnt add any combat value to units. Right now, it is only mathematically worth it if the player makes more than 35 Huszars.
Turks : Free Ballistics (no need to give them better trash, they could be made even better at what they’re supposed to do, Cav archers or Fast Imp or More Gunpowder by saving some gold here!)
This would also fit their historical theme of learning technologies through trade with the east and the west and make them a Castle/Early Imp POWER PUNCH CIV!
NOTE: I hope you are not part of NCBW (No Changes Because Winrate) or NCBMW (No Changes Because More Work) blocs.
Let us discuss keeping an open mind.
Wow lad, no need to overdo it! I think Organ Guns are fine at what they do, just need a bigger Gold discount on units, also to help with not having Shipwright.
One or the other, both will be a bit too much.
These are ok. Do not forget that Magyars have both FU Paladins (with all attack upgrades for free) and FU Arbalests. Magyar Huzsars are also some of the most useful UUs in the game.
Meh. I would rather they got Free Halberdier again, like in the release African Kingdoms.
I do not, at all, think Turks need any buffs. If anything was to be considered, perhaps a universal Trash civ bonus of +10 HP in Imperal Age, would be better than yet another free tech. Turks already get a lot for free.
If agree with op. It has been Fakt for years that Portuguese are bottom tier which has only become worse in de, but instead of talking about the more important balance problem (winrate outliers proofen by huge sample statistics pre de and now in de), community keeps talking about popular goths, teutons teitonic knights, Turks… (after all Portugal is the least picked civ as well, so no one seem to care and other civs are moved in the devs work schedule)
I don’t like your proposed changes thought. Portuguese can use a new bonus because they have the least amount of any civ, of with only sine one (15% gold) is often even used.
New bonus: University techs cost 40% less. (allows cheaper ballistic and chemistry for water, archers and fast imp gunpowder, also let’s them go bbt)
Some buffs to their UUs:
caravel 5% faster movement (currently same as Galleon) and creation time reduced (currently same as Galleon) with an even further train time reduction for elite. Wood cost reduced by 10 (currently same as Galleon) , gold cost increased by 5.
Organ guns and elite organ guns damage changed to 12 each from 16 and 20 respectively, instead extra bullets deal 3 damage (increase from 2, this ignores armor currently) and 4 for elite (total Single target damage is unchanged) .
New buff, the extra bullets deal full damage even when missing the intended target (instead of halved like currently).
Also Lose +1 extra damage against rams (this doesn’t have any effect at all and is just redundant)
Reduce the flame delay from 6 to 5 (same as crossbow) for elite organ guns
Mini Bufff to their UT:
Canon galleons and bbt effect sliglty more from the imp UT (faster bullet) to make the effect atleast noticeable.
Also agree with op that handing out techs destroys civ Charakter and should be avoided if possible.
Portuguese can stay weak early game but need to atleast perform well in imp like Koreans Saracen, Khmer, celts Mongols, which they currently do not despite popular opinion (aoestats had winrate vs game length and Portugal just reaches 50% at 60 min+) also feitoria bbt Spam is more a meme than winning strategy because it is way to turtle defensive
I’ll write here the same thing that I write on all other discussions, those datas aren’t reliable as they are now, and also you need the knowledge to read and analyze them, the win rate taked as it doesn’t mean nothing.
That being said some of those civs need some buff, but don’t base you ideas on those numbers.
Turks don’t need free ballistics, not because it’s bad bonus, but because it wouldn’t help them at all, gunpowder units aren’t affected by ballistics, and they don’t have strong archers. Instead they could have some defensive bonus, like free fortified walls upgrade, for helping them reach imp.
Portos need a buff (not the organ guns though) but you can’t just buff their gold disc. they need a strong trump card to play, a single strategy that is above average. Maybe they could benefit from a 50% disc. ballistics, or free mining upgrades.
According to the stats on the Portuguese, their biggest problem is not once they get to the castle or imperial ages, but rather getting there in the first place. Their win rate Rises steadily over the later half of the game.
At least part of their problem is their completely useless team bonus. It’s not useful in 1v1s, and it’s not particularly useful even in team games. That, in my mind, is the best place to start.
What if Portuguese and their allies Outposts could fire a weak Arrow?
Due to their low health and damage , they would not be particularly effective offensively, but could provide a defensive deterrent effect on raiders. Basically just a very weak tower that they could throw a few of down to make the smallest early raids less effective.
It would give them a nice little defensive bonus early in the game, allowing them to get to their point of strength more regularly, without inordinately boosting them in the later ages where they are already powerful.
However, outposts are cheap (not counting the stone), and fast to build. Even if the arrow is very weak, i am afraid that this bonus could be used for “outpost rush” in dark age…
Even if they receive the arrow in feudal, the bonus can be abused to set up standard tower rush.
I would make the team bonus this way in first place: Outpost dont cost stone.
If this is not enough, then we can buff the outpost by other way, like allowing them to garrison units (and maybe fire when garrisoned with archers)
2 rounds of BoA2, a tournament where 32 civs are in game (30 picked, and 2 banned) per match. 8 matches and still haven’t seen turks, despite they’re better on TG (and one map has tons of gold).
Clearly they are the civ that need a buff the most
can i get a link to those civs used so far?
we’ve discussed several potential changes to the Turks, but yes, most people agree they need love. along with Koreans, Italians (On land), and Portuguese. Malay need their bug fixed.
Free Halbs was a feature they had on AK release. Bloodlines and Plate Barding I would be against.
Ethiopians already have great Archers and Siege (in fact, both are some of the best in the game), so they deserve the bad Cavalry they get, as a balancing measure.
Let us not forget that one of the strongest late game combos, is Halbs + Siege Onagers, which Ethiopians get FU and with a bonus UT for even bigger SO splash damage radius.
I agree with Geojak92’s changes for Portuguese. Keep them weak early game (as they should be), and buff their late game. I find the Portuguese to be a really hard civ to be because of their narrow playstyle. I think these would be awesome changes to see!