I think enclosures is way too strong, even with it being gated behind age IV. It gives you 1k gpm for 60 farms and leads to an imperial eco that is never food or gold starved. You can pump out MAA, HCs, Knights and you continue to be able to produce masses of them. And then there is Wyngard as well.
Also you don’t need anything from the map to get to this bonus. Your power is self-reliant and you “only” need age IV. It’s just overtuned. The Malians seem to be similar, as they have a passive income overload, but they are new and it all remains to be seen. With the English, however, we know how it is.
The English lategame can be considered op. It is the strongest in the game due to enclosures and Network of Citadels (which should be looked at as well, since 50% is just too much. Maybe instead of increasing it from 25% to 50%, it could offer a heal per second when active. Let’s say 25% attackspeed plus 1hp per sec or per 2 sec, which would synergize very much with ironchad maa). But their castle age is a bit lackluster.
To fix the English income imbalance I suggest reducing enclosures to 8 gpm down from 17, but having it available in castle age! That way English powerspike way earlier without turning into an absurd powerhouse later on. With this change, 10 farms would equal 80 gpm, which equals 1 nerfed relic. And I think that this is reasonable and in line with the civ concept as well as the eco balance in the game altogether. Especially with the outlook of the coming patch. English would become a civ that is stronger in castle and does no longer completely outshine any other civ in imperial lategame, while still being very potent.
What are your thoughts?
3 Likes
I think it could use a nerf and being brought down to castle age. Not sure if 17 to 8 is too big of a nerf or not though.
2 Likes
Yeah its honestly incredibly sickening that they get something that is even more powerful then 5 relics with a Regnitz boost for just the cost of a single upgrade, and they dont even need to earn it they just get access to it for FREE. Their civ is just in shambles, they need a complete rework.
2 Likes
I think 17 is just crazy and should have never survived the Beta. It’s just too high. 10 farms equal more than 2 nerfed relics. 10 farms is 172 gpm, 60 farms is 1k+ gpm equalling 13 nerfed relics. It’s way too high. And why stop at 60 farms? In late late game you can go 100 farmers and nothing else but army and spam literally forever. But why do we rarely see more than 60 farms? Because enclosures is so incredibly overtuned that it’s not necessary.
With my siggestion, 60 farms would equal 6 relics, which is still incredibly good. Then imagine the English player picks up 1 or 2 relics. That’s still very strong, way more in line with the other civs and promotes once more the Wyngard Palace and its ability to produce high quality units for very low cost. And maybe, just maybe the English would want to go for 70 farms.
It’s supposed to nerf the English lategame notably, but at the same time is meant as a buff for Castle Age, which will allow the English to have a much more stable age III, which then again will lead to a much more healthy age IV.
Even with the nerf I suggested, English would still be one of the best if not the best lategame civ. Right now their combo out of NoC and enclosures is the main win condition that is almost impossible to beat if both players are somewhat equal in skill.
And just look at English mirrors… Once lategame is reached, those are deciced by the one, who has the better endurance for this endless spamming of units. Those lategame mirrors are tiresome and it’s because of the civ’s design.
@johnh2352 I agree that the English need a rework similar to the one China got, but I think it does not have to be that big. Tune Castle Age a bit, buff underwhelming landmarks and nerf lategame. The English offer barely anything, but with two techs they suddenly turn from zero to hero. They are either weak or op, there seems to be no real middle ground. They are trash without NoC and enclosures, but become op once they researched these techs. The fault is that they rely on 50% attack speed as an aura and a tech that grants unreasonably much gold to become viable as there is not much else for them. Their boni should be weaker in power, but they should have more of them, which are also distributed in a more holistic way over the whole civ in my opinion. For now, however, I think it’d be quite an easy fix for this civ to just nerf enclosures and make it a Castle Age tech. I am sure English will feel better with that as well due to being more potent in CA.
I think this is fair because it’s so much earlier, if anything it might still be too strong
Considering Lancaster’s law or wtf it’s called
its a tech bro. It’s not free
1 Like
they get access to that tech for merely existing and dont need to earn it at all, and by that point in the game the tech pays itself off in less than a minute
1 Like
Do you not like the English as a civ or something
Every civ has a number of built-in Advantages. By your same logic, Chinese have the fastest farms in the game using officials and granaries. They just get it for free. They don’t need to earn it at all