Would giving Halberdiers to Aztecs be too strong?

[NastyHigh]

They have enough options vs. cavalry civs. Just go for a treb push under your forward castle with thick pikes meat shield and a load of monks behind who can easily garrison in the castle and keep popping in and out to convert.

[FurtherLime7936]

On open maps Burgundians can be quite messed up by full early aggression.

And going back to the topic, Aztec infantry is already quite strong, with Garland Wars and Halbs they will have:

• Fully upgraded Champions with +4 attack and trained 11% faster.
• Fully upgraded halbs with +4 attack and trained 11% faster.
• Fully upgraded Elite Eagle Warriors with +4 attack and trained 11% faster.
• Condos with the same.
• Jaguar Warrior with the same.
  That are simply too many options with big power and makes Aztecs really hard to counter in Imperial (Halbs with extra attack + siege rams +siege onagers + best monks is too OP).

Burmese get free extra attack for infantry but they don’t have eagles, siege ram or siege onager, and their monks aren’t comparable, Incas get all barrack units but just generic.

[Jeddsworth]

they seriously need halbs or at least thumb ring… Ever since newer civs coming out, meso civs been turning into garbage IMO

[EvilPanda494]

aztect have always been a top tier civ. they may not be animore the level of chinese, britons or new hindustanis, but those civs are the problems by being OP not the aztecs. i do not specifically think halberdiers to aztects would break anithing, but it would be a clear buff to a civ that does not need any buff following his performances

besides, aztects have the strongest monk in the game to deal with cav even if they lack halbs

and aztects have such a good eco and bonuses from the start that they are supposed to fall-off in power in very late game, just like vikings who infact are similar in the fact that they have trash cav, no halbs, and no thumb ring

[Pulikesi25]

@Green4uu

But admittedly, on Arabia once they reach Imperial Age, their supposed power spike of Imp of Garland Wars just doesn’t work. Garland Wars Pikeman is just a sick joke, you pay for a tech to get a far worse version of what Burmese get FOR FREE and probably the Vikings more HP is better for Pikeman overall too than +4 attack.

what about 11% faster produced military, insanely strong monks, 8-10% more efficient eco for free and the bonus on skirms? Can’t believe you compared Aztecs with a garbage civ like Burmese just based on the infantry attack bonus.

@Green4uu

It’s a funny joke to see “infantry civilization” as a tag

Vikings/Japanese/Malay/Dravidians are all played as archer civ rather than infantry civ most of the times. Huns, Magyars are played as a CA civ instead of cavalry. So don’t dig too much on the tag. They’re an infantry civ because of eagles and infantry uu mainly. Btw the tag is “Infantry and monk” and they have ridiculously strong monks.

@Green4uu

Overall, if the devs keep pushing such “well rounded” civs that can do everything at any stage of the game, you wonder where civs that are more niche, like Aztecs, are gonna be left

I get the gist of what you’re trying to say here but some of the examples you have given are bad. Poles have a generic dark age and a weak late imp and also the build is quite different to utilize the folwark bonus and cavalry discount. Gurjaras will have huge problems in early game if sheep or boar gets lamed and late imp is quite weak. Only Hindustanis out of the examples you gave are solid across all ages. Chinese, Britons are other examples.

@Green4uu

their Eagles (“cavalry”) are average at best.

OMG. Did you even watch any RBW series or Kotd-3 or any other S tier tournament? (they were almost always banned in Kotd-4 so obviously you might not have seen) The civ and its castle age eagle-pikes-monks play was so broken that they had to nerf the eco bonus and production rate. pre-nerf they had like 10% pick rate in 1v1 open at top level. Even now they’re top tier for open maps and the only top tier tournament where they weren’t drafted is Resurgence(for obvious reasons)