The yam nerf hurts really bad. Mongols can’t build walls or keeps for defense, so they rely on a mobile military to squash raids. When chasing down knights or horsemen attacking your trade route (something that Mongols are supposed to be good at), the speed bonus is a necessity, where other civs can just build walls along the route.
Now that the speed buff doesn’t linger, a mongol player has to essentially have half of the entire map covered by outposts to protect from raids, or enemy cavalry will just run circles. Again, other civs can build walls for this.
Not to mention, Mongol outposts can’t be fortified into stone outposts, so enemies can easily destroy your investment in the blink of an eye. Instead of being a civ that sacrifices fortifications for map mobility, it’s now a civ that just has no defensive option, gets raided, and can’t even utilize its key trading mechanic (which was already risky to begin with).
I have proposed that they reduce the cost of the outpost, in age of castles, but that they nerf the steppe
Agree that is was a pretty harsh nerf in this. If this was being so much of an issue (which I doubt it really was), you could have nerfed the amount of time you had the bonus, but how it is now it’s pretty much undoable. And hell, it’s not like it is something that can be abused like the network of castles mechanic which is easier and could be said to be more powerful even more so because the english have many other defensive and offensive mechanisms, but that isn’t nerfed.
Mongols don’t have that much of defense, nor much power in long siege as well, the mobility was THE characteristic of the civ. I hope they revisit this issue soon.
I hope they will not. I would take Yam aura from villagers too. It is enough to have super speedy military (Yam aura + Khan arrow). And since Mongols can take stone with no vills, literally from the start, their outposts should be nerfed more.
No. They do get stone with no vills, but it is at a steady rate and that rate is very very slow. Other civs can just put 20 villagers on stone if they need it urgently. The Mongols cannot.
The thing upset me is that, if you go for age1 tower rush it doesn’t even got affected.
While if you try to play age2 it got affected the most …
If the target is to reduce the power of tower rush, this is a totally wrong direction. This actually encourage Mongol to tower rush (and into fc) more, as other option got affected more.
The correct way should be directly nerf tower rush, and buff other playstyle (Sliver tree and Kurultai has 0% usage in tournament). Now Sliver Tree actually got nerfed more because you need more tower to speed buff your traders and have you units quicker to defend… I will say in general trader need some buff too btw…
Its not over-nerfed. Its exactly like it should have been from the start. Mongols have had their units speed across the entire map even without outposts thanks to YAM network. This never should have been released in this state in the first place.
Zerg would be completely overpowered if speed boost would linger beyond creep. And thats exactly how the game worked until this nerf.
You’ve got to embrace the very strong likelihood that Mongols will be nerfed into the ground within a year. It’s too unique to survive and the nail that sticks out often gets the hammer. The issue presented for the patch isn’t really the issue. Yam’s nerf obviously had far wider implications than tower rushing. It was like using a gun to pop a pimple.
The ladder, in general, is going to throw shade at whatever civilization is able to mount initial aggression. Right now, the ladder thinks that’s Mongols. What it doesn’t understand is the type of player that is attracted to Mongol play, isn’t there because of the theme. You can nerf a civilization into the ground and it dosent change that type playstyle.
Aggressive players are looking for one thing in a civilization. Initiative. Which Civilization gives them the initiative as early as possible. Why? Because whoever can make or not make the first big move, controls the game. That player can choose to directly attack the most dangerous thing in any nonpro game, the opp’s prebaked build order. Most games fall apart once a build order breaks down. You can watch it in games, how something goes from smooth and efficient, to a panic smashing of keys stumbling on basic needs, like villager ques.
My recommendation is to learn to play other high initiative civs like French. French’s fundamental strengths will likely survive the ban mob far longer than Mongols.
Comparing Creep Tumors to Towers is an impressive feat of mental gymnastics. You’re comparing something that is free (only costs APM) and requires detection units to kill, to something that costs considerable resources (in the scheme of resource efficiency), and anyone can kill.
If you’re suggesting that Zerg would be broke by lingering buff, that logic would equally suggest that mongols are super underpowered because they have to pay for towers. ((the Zerg don’t pay X minerals per tumor). You see how silly this logic gets?
Ya’ll are crazy. Why not just require both teams to play the same civ during a ranked match, i.e. French vs French, or Mongols vs Mongols. This way you will actually be testing your “skill” against your opponents skill using the EXACT SAME UNITS AND TRAITS, you know like both sides in a football game have to follow the same rules, so that the skill of the players is what determines the outcome.
The top 10 players in the 1v1 league ALWAYS beat the Mongols. There is nobody in the top of the ladders using the OP Mongols to tower rush or Khan murder the sheep to crush their opponent. Nobody. The idea that the Mongols are OP comes from lazy players that would rather cry about losing than learn from their mistakes. They had already nerfed the Yam boost outside of outpost range from 20 seconds to 10 seconds, now they take it away. And they took away Khan moving attack in Dark Age. Relic is literally taking apart the Mongols patch by patch because lazy players can not or do not want to learn how to actually counter the Mongols. Why even have uniqueness in the civs, all you do is cry about how civ x is unfair because it has better this than civ y.
In real life a football club studies the matches that its upcoming competitor has played so that they know the strengths and weaknesses of the individual players. If you are playing ranked matches in AOE 4 then you need to learn the strengths and weaknesses of each civ so that you will know how to defend against early aggression and how to mass an effective offensive push to win the match. Stop crying foul. You are not entitled to a win. Stop being lazy and earn some wins the old fashioned way; with practice, some intel, and improved skills anyone can beat anyone with any civ, the top ten in the ranked ladders prove this every time they play.
Right now, balance is at ITS BEST after the game’s release.
Something needs to be adjusted in some civilization, buff/nerf some Landmark/technology, correct bugs and we would be ready for a future DLC.
It’s been three days since the patch to this post. All workdays too. How in the world are you jumping to that conclusion?
Because I asked for a bigger Early boost to HRE, a slight buff to Mangonel (especially against ranged units), and a few more tweaks.
There are still some adjustments to be made, but the meta is much better than it was months ago. Need to fix more bugs and solve the issue of team play with cheaters.