“You hate innovations!” No. I hate fake innovations

TLDR: the real innovations that should be encouraged were those of gameplay and contents (good or bad, they always could fix it), not “innovations” as excuses for less work and less thought

What were real innovations
Universal techtree updates in the Conquerors
Regional units
QoL improvements
Elite unit skins
I’d even count Chronicles

You don’t just need to come up with them. You need to think about how to make them work well

Why V&V is not
You need to think, do the research, do the writing, do the programming, to make a good campaign
“Let’s break that mode and invent a new DLC concept” only takes you a second, and their only purpose was to reuse work and milk the fanbase. That was not innovation

Why 3K is not

Is there anything new it really offers? Heroes? You can add it to basically any civ

Most of the campaigns added before were not extremely popular ones. Was El Cid 3K-level popular when AOC was released? Why did it still work? Because ES spend their efforts. The previous DLC campaigns required research into unknown topics and writing. They need to dig into materials within the game’s theme and try to fit them in.

You just need a five minute talk with a whiteboard to come up with 3K

They did it because they want to reuse work and borrow some free advertising material. They didn’t want to think about other ways to make the DLC more appealing like they did to previous ones. “Breaking the formula” is the cheapest one.

Conclusion
On the surface, WE had been “bold” that they kept breaking their games’ formulae. In fact, they had become more and more afraid of real changes, and only made “changes” to avoid them. They broke the formula only when it led to less thinking and less work.

9 Likes

I was fine when civs disnt need new fangled code snd bonuses were still simple +x% or tech free/cheaper

Just me?

5 Likes

I’d even go as far to say V&V is an insult to the playerbase’s intelligence. If you are selling someone free mods for real money, then you don’t respect that person.

It does. It added fictional civilizations and campaigns to a historical game and butchered it’s identity. Very innovative…

4 Likes

Yeah, I don’t like how they add some very weird effects just to pretend its unique, like:

“Huntable animals now give lumber instead of food”

“Swordsman and Spearman switch bonuses”

“After building a military building a Giraffe is spawned in your TC”

Why we need these kind of gimmicks…?

8 Likes

Because it’s not possible to generate hundreds of unique but non-gimmicky bonuses. It’s the inevitable consequence of adding so many civs.

The most interesting bonuses are actually the simplest yet most distinctive ones, like the Huns’ no-house requirement, Britons’ extra range, or Goths’ cheaper infantry bonus. These simple bonuses shaped their civ identities exceptionally well. And here’s some random bonus from the new civs:

  • Can garrison mills with herdable animals to produce food.
  • Stone miners generate 33% gold in addition to stone.
  • Meat of hunted and livestock animals does not decay.
  • Chemistry and Hand Cannoneer available in Castle Age.

These bonuses just feel off, and they nowhere shape the civs’ identities like the old civ bonuses did. And some of these are rip-offs from already existing bonuses.

1 Like

I beg to disagree. I can pull up many civ concepts from an era when you were yo be lambasted for daring to consider auras or special interactions based on hardcoding

It has something to do with something called the Users patch?

How mystical people are able to break the laws of hardcoding still baffles me

3 Likes

Some unique stuff that could be given as civ bonuses or castle techs:

  1. Archers have faster movement speed
  2. Fletching, Bodkin and/or Bracer is free
  3. Ballistics is free
  4. Towers cost less stone (like -50)
  5. Archers have +1 or +2 against infantry
  6. Spearmen (or infantry) receive +0.5 range
  7. Can upgrade Palisade walls into Fortified Palisade walls
  8. Effects from mining camp techs are increased (doubled?)
1 Like

Giving a third unit for CA SL BE EA Scorpion lines are still not done too.

Fish traps getting a unique upgrade,unique building replacing the market is also left.

1 Like

I love the “additional stage” UUs. It’s like when a pokemon gets a new evolution.

1 Like

Come to think of it why hasnt anyone got a feudal weaker knight yet?CA is hard to balance in feudal so not a great design choice.

I agree would be pretty cool!

I think feudal CA could work but only with a really long train time and short range. Massing CA in feudal seems pretty strong.

I’m waiting for a house and trade carts that can shoot back bonus.