Zhu Xi still has problems in pup

[EliteIdiot233]

1. Zhuge Nu
   Archer can obtain silk bowstrings, but Zhu Xi because there is no archer, the lack of a corresponding niche. Especially in new version, the Archer can form the threat to the siege weapon, but Zhu Xi’s Zhuge Nu wants to do the same matter to have to pay the huge price. The Zhuge Nu, as a special version of the Archer, should have similar technology to increase the range, even if it is weaker than the silk bowstrings.

2.Yuan Dynasty
Zhu Xi’s Yuan Dynasty is a bit redundant, many times it is better to skip the Yuan Dynasty and enter the Ming Dynasty directly, because it takes too long to spend 18,000 resources on units to pay back the money, and spending 1800 resources to enter the Yuan Dynasty is very much a loss of game rhythm. It is suggested to enhance the effect of the Yuan Dynasty, and when entering the dynasty, you can get some units for free.

3.Shaolin Monk
The new elite army tactics were devastating to the Shaolin monks. In the fight against other MAA, due to the high attack speed of Shaolin monks, its dps is much more severely affected by armor than the MAA, and the strength is far less than the original. After entering the castle era, the Shaolin monks only used to pick up relic, and then it was useless, and it would not continue to be produced before the arrival of the Ming Dynasty, as Zhu Xi’s signature military, which was obviously unreasonable.

4.Jiangnan Tower
In several versions, the weak landmarks of other civilizations have been strengthened, and the Jiangnan Tower appears more and more humorous.

5.Dali horses
The actual effect does not match the text description, if it is only 10% of the actual effect, it is too weak.

6.Military Affairs Buregu
The effect is somewhat puzzling, so it is better to change to: IO can submit taxes to keeps and outposts.

[EliteIdiot233]

7.Ming Dynasty
Ming Dynasty bonus works twice for some units. This bug has been around for 6 months.

8.Zhu Xi’s Library
Roar of Dragon is still too rubbish, the effect is weak and trigger is also convenient, I suggest adding some generalities for better results.
There is absolutely no need for Advanced Administraion to research,six IO are enough, it is not worth spending a research number for this technology.
The Cloud of Terror has been invisibly weakened due to changes in chemistry and bombard.
In fact, the technology of Zhu Xi’s library is not strong, some of them are not as good as the ordinary technology of other civs, and it is completely unnecessary to limit the number of research.

9.Chemistry
The new version of chemistry is stupid, Zhu Xi and the Chinese were also stupid to get chemistry for free.The advantage of this civilization bonus is far less than before.

[OriginalKnot717]

1. I agree though it isn’t a huge issue anyway as crossbows with 10k bolts replace the zhuge nu in imperial.
2. You go yuan for the pagodas not for the 10% discount.
3. I agree but it is the same with many units.
4. 100% agree, this landmark sucks. They should let you train IO’s from it.
5. Didn’t notice this but if so I agree.
6. It is fine as it is.
7. Never knew about this.
8. Strongly agree, roar of the dragon is still trash, advanced administration should be moved to mount lu and available in imperial. Cloud of terror is fine because chemistry gives bombards +25% bonus damage now instead of a flat +20%. I do think they could give you 3 techs at least.
9. For chinese this is bad but for zhu xi less so because iirc the grenadier has less base damage than a hand cannoneer so receives less of a buff from chemistry and you now get more of a buff on your bombards instead. Does suck that nest of bees doesn’t get buffed though.

[Croissantini]

The additional range on archers is devastating for ZGN, as Long Bows are a hard counter exactly because of that range. Now, regular archers, who walk faster than ZGN, will have the same benefit. This cannot be understated, as ZGN are the best thing ZXL has going for it in Imperial.

Another massive problem is handcannoneers. ZGN lack them, yet they seem much stronger now due to the attack movement speed. If the intention of that new Grenadier technology was to offset this even more, then I’d at least ask for them to reduce the attack delay time. The unit handles like something from Sims, and ZGN will #### # ##### volley before even one Grenade is out.

I hadn’t foreseen the Shaolin Monk issue, but you are right. Unfortunately, proper production of Shaolin Monks are locked behind a dynasty (in a civilization whose whole point is to not do this), so it will never be a real strategy.

[GoldenArmorX]

1. Zhuge Nu
This is curious, because it’s not that they don’t want to give the Zhuge Nu more range, but that the repeating crossbow doesn’t have a Bowstring, and the technology is only for bow-wielding units.

Also, historically, the Zhuge Nu is an ultra-short-range weapon. If the problem is that it becomes weak compared to the Imperial Archer, there are ways to make its power equivalent is post-imperial.

Since ZhuXi is a civ of Chinese crossbowmen and experimental weapons, they should have their own analogous technology to be able to beat the Zhugenu in Imperial

• Poisoned Zhuge bolts.- ZhugeNu’s first Bolt now deals poison damage over time (2 in 6 seconds to not be so broken).
• “ZhuGe Ling ancient designs:” Improves the ZhugeNus’ range by +1, the crossbowman’s range by +1, and the Springald’s range by +0.5.

2. Yuan Dynasty
Well, the real use of this dynasty in Zhu XI is to get pagodas to make a massive shaolin monk combo if you managed to accumulate enough farms in the previous dynasty.

• Now, if the unit cost bonus isn’t enough, well, that’s debatable.

3. Shaolin Monk
Considering the change to Elite Infantry Tactics, I’d actually consider “Keep” the +20% extra HP, along with the melee armor increase. But yeah, Shaolin Monks are going to be weaker against infantry anyway.

• It should be considered to add an extra unique tech for Shaolin Monks in Imperial, maybe in their own Landmark.

4. Jiangnan Tower
I remember it was broken back in the day because it allowed you to amass more units for free if you got enough wood, I don’t know if it’s still the same.

• Allowing the creation of Imperial officers would be great, it would save you from using the city center for the rest. I don’t know if this would be very broken though. Anyway, these are suggestions.

5. Dali Horses (Bug)
Like you mentioned, the attack speed was improved only by 10% and not 20% like the text says.

• Let’s clarify if it’s a BUG and not It is increased by the amount you wanted, or a typo and it was always 10%.

6.Military Affairs Bureau

• Because now Damage reduction is gonna be named as “Resistance to”, I suppose they have to change the text to 35% Resistance to all damage in general (fire and siege i suppose).

7.Ming Dynasty BUG BONUS
Like you say, it is double for some units, and if it is a bug, it would be corrected.

8.Zhu Xi’s Library: Cloud of Terror was Downgraded

Like you say, with the change to siege, bombardments have lost a lot of damage (100 → 55) and therefore the effect of Cloud of Terror, which increases its area of ​​damage, has been dramatically reduced.

• It should be considered to increase its values

9. Chemistry become meaninfull

Well, you are right that Chemistry Free is meaningfull now. The original sense of the technology for the Chinese was to increase the damage of all their units and technologies that used gunpowder since feudal (Towers with Handcannon Slits for example), but now it only affects the Bombard.

• Cost reduction to gunpowder technologies.- I could suggest that the bonus includes developing free “Serpentine Powder”, or reduce the cost of both by half as a new bonus.

• Technology or passive bonus to gunpowder units.- The other option would be for the Chinese to have a new technology that gives more power to their gunpowder units in the imperial age.

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Finally I want to add that I am going to create some POLLS once the free PUP is over, and although I wanted to make only 1 general, I see that specifically with China, there are too many factors affected by the patch that I think it gives enough to give an opinion, especially to ask.

Because of this, I would appreciate it if any possible solutions to the main questions in the post were added, or if any more were added, since, as testers, we are doing our critical part.

[EliteIdiot233]

Thank you for your detailed analysis, and I’ll add a few more:

1. Zhuge Nu may not need new technology, directly let the Temple of Sun of its Divine Defense on Zhuge Nu and Crossbowman effective.
2. It is hoped that the Yuan Dynasty bonus can be increased to 15%,and get some free units when you enter dynasty.This encourages players to actively move into the every dynasty.Song Dynasty: 2 early Palace guards, Yuan Dynasty: 4 Shaolin monks, Ming Dynasty: 6 Imperial Guards.
3. In addition to the change of the elite army tactics, the weakening of food gathering technology also has a greater impact on the Shaolin monks than other units. In addition, previously difficult to suppress due to the unique label, now that the springald, handcannoneer, bombard bonus damage can be effective against the Shaolin monk, he is weakened more than expected. I agreed to add some technology to the Shaolin monk to help him gain his rightful place.
   4, In order to conform to the original effect, my suggestion is that after the construction of the landmark, the Jiangnan Tower can be presented with a imperial official.
4. Zhuge Nu, Grenadier, Nest of Bee are all affected by the bug, and now Zhu Xi’s late game strength depends on this bug, if it is fixed, I hope to make up for Zhu Xi’s late ability in other places.For example, Zhu Xi’s library can provide more technology, and some weak technology should be further strengthened.

[HeroChauvin9823]

I think the effect of Zhu Xi’s legacy in the Ming Dynasty should affect all units and not only unique units just like the effect of China in the Ming Dynasty can affect all units, unique units are stronger than universal units, but Ming effects cannot affect ordinary units, which makes strong unique units stronger in the Ming Dynasty and weak universal units weaker in the Ming Dynasty. As Yuan Raiders are stronger than horseman, they get a 15% damage buff in Ming, while horsemen don’t get a 15% damage buff.

[Croissantini]

@EliteIdiot233

Zhuge Nu
Archer can obtain silk bowstrings, but Zhu Xi because there is no archer, the lack of a corresponding niche. Especially in new version, the Archer can form the threat to the siege weapon, but Zhu Xi’s Zhuge Nu wants to do the same matter to have to pay the huge price. The Zhuge Nu, as a special version of the Archer, should have similar technology to increase the range, even if it is weaker than the silk bowstrings.

Zhuge Nu get shafted by this so hard. Now that the game features both English and Lancaster, half of the playerbase will be playing with Archers that has far more range than ZGN, making them nigh unusable. At least against Longbow, ZGN wasn’t slower–but Yeoman just Archers, but stronger making this match up impossible.

The nerf to Nest of Bees just further cements this. 1 less projectile results in 3 less damage against Archers–Yeoman are fast enough to dodge the brunt of this too. It’s ugly out there, no Silkstrings to look forward to in Imperial either.