1v1 only players don't understand game balance

[Coyplautus123]

None of you is playing the game. Game starts at high resources when everyone is able to make a large army

[filtercoffee488]

@Gargarensis

This is so funny because it’s in a closed space, like a tree corridor in black forest, where the halbardiers are sure to win the encounter. Only if the elephants surrounded the halbardiers do they have a minimal chance of success.

I am not even going to provide you with proof because I don’t respect you enough to do so.

For anyone else who cares, you can test it out. Put 60 war elephants against halbs. War elephants have significicant trample damage. Meaning, A single attack of theirs can damage upto 5-6 halbs of yours. This is deadly for your halbs in closed spaces.

I’ve had enough of this clown.

[Gargarensis]

@Coyplautus123

None of you is playing the game. Game starts at high resources when everyone is able to make a large army

Oh God, here comes the guy who only plays Deathmatch.

@filtercoffee488

I’ve had enough of this clown.

Ooooh, you’re calling names, I’m so going to report you! That’s how you sound like. Anyway, did you know that the spearman line has double attack bonus against elephants, since elephants are in both the cavalry and elephant armor class? Theoretically, that will compensate for the trample damage. If you could show a video where what you claim actually happens, I would take your word and admit I was wrong. You won’t do such a thing, not because “you don’t respect me enought”, but because you don’t respect yourself enough.

[filtercoffee488]

@Gargarensis

If you could show a video where what you claim actually happens, I would take your word and admit I was wrong.

Okay, give your word that 1. You will admit you were wrong and apologize, and 2. You won’t comment further on this thread. I’ll show you proof then.

[Gargarensis]

@filtercoffee488

Okay, give your word that 1. You will admit you were wrong and apologize, and 2. You won’t comment further on this thread. I’ll show you proof then.

Yes, I will apologize. However, in order to do such thing, I would need to post a comment in this thread. Moreover, it’s not your privilege to decide who can or cannot post here.

[filtercoffee488]

@Gargarensis

Yes, I will apologize. However, in order to do such thing, I would need to post a comment in this thread. Moreover, it’s not your privilege to decide who can or cannot post here.

No, it is not my privilege, that is why I asked you to do so, after that one comment. If you believe you are correct, you should be willing to bet at least that much, right? Especially considering how much you’ve attacked me? Or are you that spineless?

If I’m wrong, I’ll admit that, and add that as an edit to the post.

[Gargarensis]

@filtercoffee488

If you believe you are correct, you should be willing to bet at least that much, right?

We should also throw $50.000 dollars to the bet to see how macho we are, right? No; I will not refrain from posting here or anywhere else if I feel I have something worthy to add. Just post the proof and I’ll admit I was wrong if it refutes my claims.

[filtercoffee488]

@Gargarensis

We should also throw $50.000 dollars to the bet to see how macho we are, right? No; I will not refrain from posting here or anywhere else if I feel I have something worthy to add. Just post the proof and I’ll admit I was wrong if it refutes my claims.

Yeah, no. You are pathetic. After all that trash talk, you couldn’t respect yourself even to such a small bet. What is funny is that you don’t even know 1v1s. If you did, you’d know that 60 halbs aren’t enough. That’s because 60 halbs will lose to 60 paladins and war elephants are far stronger and more expensive than paladins.

You don’t have to apologize, I don’t care enough to value your apology. Here’s the gif for anyone else who might be on the fence. I will block this guy and move on.

60 Persian War Elephants vs 60 Spanish halbs, all FU

There was no micro involved on either side. I used attack move for them to move towards each other. Halbs were in spread formation to reduce initial trample damage. You can clearly see this with my mouse novements. Also, no amount of micro on either side will change the final result.

Oh, and for all team players. The proper counter here are siege onagers, battle elephants, and monks. There are a few other units, but these are the main ones. Heavy scorpions also have a bonus, against elephants. But they are hard to work with.

[Gargarensis]

The guy posts a gif which does refute my claim and proceeds to block me so he will never read my apology. This is hysteria, plain and simple. This is what humanity has come to.

Althoug, if I may point out, the elephants were microed to surround the halbardiers, which is the scenario I described in which they could have success. Skill matters a lot in this things.

[Leshanni]

I haven’t read all the replies but it looks like this thread quickly became a slug fest.

Personally I read the OP as saying “game balance should factor in team games as well as 1v1 Arabia games”, which with the stats given seems fair.

Some questions and one piece of advice:

Do you think that team games are imbalanced right now?
Do you think that team games aren’t factored into game balance?

Maybe don’t title your post “you don’t understand X” cause that’s inflammatory and of course led people to be aggressive to you trying to defend themselves against an accusation you made in the title.

[Gargarensis]

@Leshanni

Maybe don’t title your post “you don’t understand X” cause that’s inflammatory and of course led people to be aggressive to you trying to defend themselves against an accusation you made in the title.

Very good advice. Thank you.

[filtercoffee488]

@Leshanni

Maybe don’t title your post “you don’t understand X” cause that’s inflammatory and of course led people to be aggressive to you trying to defend themselves against an accusation you made in the title.

This was actually an exact copy of another post, here:

Team Game only players don't understand game balance

If you never play 1v1, you will never truly understand what a balanced army looks like. Or what overpowered actually means. Change my mind. I keep seeing posts from people who never play 1v1 saying “This unit is OP, needs a nerf” or “This unit is too weak, needs a buff”. Either because they just got dominated by that unit or because they never see a particular unit in team games. Look, I know you love booming in pocket position so you can get all your upgrades and spam knights. Or crossbows.…

@Leshanni

Personally I read the OP as saying “game balance should factor in team games as well as 1v1 Arabia games”, which with the stats given seems fair.

Thank you. Yes, that’s my point. I thought that was pretty clear if you actually read the post.

@Leshanni

Do you think that team games are imbalanced right now?
Do you think that team games aren’t factored into game balance?

I will write a longer reply when I get home and am on my PC.

[Gargarensis]

Oh, another thing. I said “60 Halbardiers” without really thinking. Yes, it was stupid. It takes two of them to defeat a single paladin, so it’s obvious that more are needed to kill an elephant. But it’s just a question of numbers. How many, then? 120? 150? That is just a minor detail. The matter is a different one. The matter is how hysteria affects the guy who posted this thread. I’m still wondering if videogames like the present one make this psychological issue worse. Are forums a blessing, so people can vent their issues? Or does this kind of discussion enhances their hysteria?

[DemiserofD]

The problem is, common & decent threads don’t generate much commentary so they quickly fall to the bottom. Inflammatory threads generate a lot of discussion so they stay on the top. The more aggressive someone is, the more likely they are to spur people trying to counter them, but the more experienced they are, the better they get at defending their ideas, while newer members quickly get frustrated and leave.

This leads to long-term forum-goers being primarily the most quarrelsome members of the community, right or wrong. The basis of ‘victory’ in a thread primarily has to do with whoever has the staying power to argue until the other person gives up.

And even if they do manage to reach some sort of consensus, there’s a very small probability that their agreement is right for the game. I write in my free time, and perhaps the best advice I ever got was, “If someone tells me they’re annoyed with XYZ, they might be right. If they tell you ABC is the solution to XYZ, they’re probably wrong.”

In this thread in particular, following that logic, I can get behind the frustration being felt on team games, but I can’t agree with the answers that have been proposed in the past.

[DrMaxy4142]

@DemiserofD

This leads to long-term forum-goers being primarily the most quarrelsome members of the community

Offtopic but indeed

@DemiserofD

Inflammatory threads generate a lot of discussion so they stay on the top.

And they are the ones who get closed and unlisted first.

Please stay friendly , no matter how frustrating other people seem. Discussions are fine, but going with personal attacks and flaming is not.

[filtercoffee488]

@DrMaxy4142

Please stay friendly , no matter how frustrating other
people seem. Discussions are fine, but going with personal attacks and flaming is not.

But then you must realize that at least a significant chunk of what that person said was explicit and direct personal attacks. I never start levying personal attacks. I’d rather just ask people to stop and move on. But that seems to be pretty difficult.

I can show you 3 examples of this pretty recently. There are more than a few people in this forum who are downright toxic. Asking them to agree to disagree and move on does nothing.

@Gargarensis

The matter is a different one. The matter is how hysteria affects the guy who posted this thread. I’m still wondering if videogames like the present one make this psychological issue worse. Are forums a blessing, so people can vent their issues? Or does this kind of discussion enhances their hysteria?

@DrMaxy4142 how is this relevant to the discussion here? This is just a bunch of personal attacks with little to foundation. If more people here were like this, I’d rather just delete all my posts and find a better place to talk.

This is not even mentioning that “hysteria” as a word has has been used to attack women on the basis of pseudo-psychology for decades in the past.

[Malycos654]

@filtercoffee488

If you only play arabia and arena, you don’t know anything about how water works. And, to repeat, there’s a large section of the community that do play water maps.

Seeing the last remaining percent, i think the word “large” doesnt fit.

As for the main title. I will be honest, and say that i prefer someone who has more knowledge on 1v1 game rather than someone who only play TG on my team. For me if you are horrible at 1v1 you cant be good on TG because sometime you need to hold your position to cover your teammates

[GermanAttorney8]

@filtercoffee488

The game should be balanced in a way that most people can enjoy their preferred play style

I kinda disagree tbh, feels like

@filtercoffee488

Moreover, this should be done while keeping the feeling of AoE2 , whatever that means to most people.

is actually the only rule we should follow.

Otherwise, if we seek majority for the sake of majority, we should balance our game to look like LoL/Dota/whatever popular game instead.

[FreeWinPlz1739]

@filtercoffee488

The game should be balanced in a way that most people can enjoy their preferred play style, over the largest variety of game styles and maps available

So nerf Franks, nerf camel civs , delete ballista elephant, delete mamelukes , delete conquistador, delete longboat

[filtercoffee488]

@GermanAttorney8

Otherwise, if we seek majority for the sake of majority, we should balance our game to look like LoL/Dota/whatever popular game instead.

I disagree, mostly because I think that most AoE2 players actually like and want AoE2. I am here for this game, not for any of the other ones.

But even otherwise, we are in agreement. Priority 1 is keeping feel of AoE2. Priority 2 is balance in a way most people can enjoy what they want. You do not sacrifice 1 for 2.

@FreeWinPlz1739

So nerf Franks, nerf camel civs , delete ballista elephant, delete mamelukes , delete conquistador, delete longboat

Bro, what are you talking about? I don’t understand what this argument even is. How about you start by showing me some charity and interpreting my comments the best way you can? If we disagree, we can take it from there.

Do you really think I want to delete conqs, ballista eles and mamelukes?