What engagements do Celts massively win due to the extra speed? Which mid-tier Imperial Age civs can Celts defeat due to this overpowered bonus?
So you think giving a unit that can close thr gsp with judt about anything a charged attack is a good idea? It would be like a Coustilier without the trash weakness, while also having more attack and costing less to boot, as well as being easier to mass.
But you do you.
I have been busy so have not checked out my AOE stuff I have bought into. Celts have a funny degree of discipline. Their castles where stone and earth with a wood fort on top, and over the ages, they lost some advantages. The largest was breaking them selves apart from each other. Rome was right in that regard and killed their expansion way before Rome. Also probably why Celtic and Norse arts had strange similarities. Then a Greek account with the Celts long before Rome suggest the originals could see Spain to Ireland. So if true, that means a lot of land sunk or worse at some time before. So depictions are hard to make for sure. It could have been oops in translations. Most is due to word of mouth. I think the Greeks had the Celts better till late in Celtic history, and the Romans slandered more than talked positively. Otherwise we could have had better accounts of that history. Celt did not trade for their Iron. The Iron came from the sea so to speak. Trading for magnetic rocks to harvest such was more like the Celts than mining Iron. That in its self makes it harder. We know fill well what nature does to metal. The Celts I do not think had the time to figure out how to protect such. 2 types of Celts, those that fought fought then retreated, and those that gave their all. Most fought for a time then retreated to strike again.
no but I think giving them +1 attack in Elite form given how they cost 25g and 65f and they are only from Castles and Celts have nothing fancy in Imp in 1v1s is a good idea.
You still haven’t answered my question, if Celts speed bonus was +20%, which matchups would they dominate hard?
Tbf, as i’ve already sayd, that was just an idea from the top of my head to spice up their infantry play a bit. There are of course a pletora or other options for UTs if that would be OP, even if i doubt something like 5 extra damage on a charge would make anithing OP especially if expensive, but then again, there are millions of options one could use to spice up their infantry if that would be too strong
That id be okay with.
I think 10% + squires could be fine, so long as woads speed was nerfed to compensate.
In a certain way it would incentivate using more infantry.
Others ideas coming to my mind are:
-Give Siege towers +1 or +2 «range» to jump walls (goodbye houses behing walls)
-(Old schools will hate it) give woad riders ability to dodge arrows like shirivamsha riders.
-Barracks can garrisone and heal infantry units (lost Masonry)
Just ideas…
yeah I think we agree then 
either of the 2 buffs could work for Celts.
Well to be honest most infantry UU costs about that and are about as strong stat wise as the woads, or weaker, so if you buff the woads, you then need to buff most other infantry UU, since woads are already better than a fair chunk of them. I would be fine as i think infantry UU are generally overpriced especially due to supplies, but i would like to see then something happen to others as well, outside zerks and obuch and ghulam and urumi
5 damage on a charge sounds worthless. Unless it eas on every contact, and then given woads high speed it would be broken
Infact i was proposing something cool, not something super strong, as i believe celts do not need it. If 5 is worthless then a nice balance can be found of the idea Is cool enough
Like which ones? Please give an inclusive list, I think Woads don’t even score top 5 and there are like 8-10 infantry UU. Something like Obuch puts Woads to shame and makes it look like a Castle age unit.
Depends what your fighting. If im against archers id probably prefer woads ovsr most infantry uu not named huskarl/ghulam
I think they are stronger then samurai, serjeants, Jaguars, TK, shotel, karambit…pretty much only worse then Zerks, huskarl, and Obuch that is a bit OP imho. New ghulam and urumi too soon to Say as they might get tweaked in the future
Don’t get me wrong, i would love a buff for their Imperial state, but i would love a change for some more infantry UU across the board as many need a Little love.
I disagree with this list. For example, you say “they are better than TK”. TK by its design is a niche unit, is excels in chokepoints and fighting under Castles. It’s not seen a lot in 1v1s, but it is NOT a weak unit. All in all, it does the job it’s supposed to do cost-effectively. Woads are a marginally better Champion.
Likewise, Karambit Warriors, the emphasis here is on speed and surrounds. Clearly in 1v1 comparisons they aren’t very good, but when you have 100+ of these, if you manage to mass them, game is normally over unless opponent Stone walls.
The only one I agree they are better than is Serjeants, and that’s because Serjeants are overpriced, every other unit you list, is stronger than Woads in my opinion, just you look at their worst case scenarios, such as TK vs full Arbalest army and Samurais vs full Handcannoneer. You confuse higher specialization (TK has higher specialization than Woads) with underpowered, imo.
No i’m not confusing anithing i’m merely saying that woads are as strong as Champions yes but have 1.4 Speed which is huge advantage, cannot really be valued. This fact alone make them usable in many more situations than TK, karambit and others, and to me is better to have a versatile unit than an overspecialized one
But this kind of discussions inevitably come down to a bit of personal tastes so there will never be and objectively good argument for either side i guess
I do agree woads could use a bit of love, even a slight -5 food, but again i would like to see some love to other infantry as well, and if they are to overspecialized, make them less specialized and more fun to play with
Agreed on the Serjeants being just very sadly overpriced as heck
how they trade 1v1 still has an overwhelming importance, and 1v1 they don’t do great. Like I said, from a Castle I expect a unit that gives me an advantage if I must go through the trouble of raising a Castle, so stuff like Shotels, Huskarls etc. are nice, ETK are situationally good and even in 1v1s you might find yourself making 1 or 2 of these.
And not every unit can be made viable, for example ETK can’t be made viable on Arabia without becoming an anti-all, oppressive unit, as right now it does very well vs every melee unit and does very well vs any unit if you stand at the bottom of a Castle. If you buff their weakness, ranged, you make them the perfect unit.
Woad Raiders, in contrast, will always be weak vs cavalry and ranged, a +1 attack just serves to make them trade a bit better vs their counters, vs villagers and such and mostly is there to account for the expensive price. ETK also has an expensive price, but also insane HP, attack, it’s the whole package really (minus the speed).
That’s the beauty about this game, there is no core of reason many times. Randomness is quite common here, I wish we had more of this.
Nah, here you fall for the same uninspired single-dimensional trap, you want to make Celts a themed civ by over empasizing on Infantry instead of accepting the vagueness. That’s how you end up with horrible civ designs like Goths, Britons and of course Burgundians.
I don’t think it’s totally random though. The Paladin at least reflects their use of French cavalry as mercenaries.
Better that than having a tech that’s legitimately useless like Stronghold. I would much rather have a civ where you can use stuff than a civ with a tech like Stronghold.
2 Likes
5% buff in imperial age infantry speed was fine because the powerspikes came in dark and feudal age. Just like the wood chopping bonus tapering off
Now that dark age infantry speed was nerfed it does seem a little underwhelming. However its still good in feudal age and even in imperial age it is noticeable. Also celt infantry beat genereic infantry in equal numbers because of this bonus as its less wasted time accquiring new targets in big battles
Stronghold is pretty useless and should be changed. Specially since celts is one of the least changed civs ever. They should get something fresh. Like a tech that gives skirmishers extra movement speed as well reflecting the irish kern. Or a tech that buffs the hussar line somehow reflecting the hobelar horses