I already don’t like the addition of the 3K civs, if you can call them that, but another factor in their weirdness is the fact that they’re missing Trebuchets at the Castle. In this T90 video, he mentions that DauT can buy a Castle, drop it in response to TaToH, then go Imp and treb the Castle down, forgetting that such a thing isn’t possible for the 3K civs. Instead, he’d have to build a Siege Workshop and use the dramatically inferior Traction Trebuchets instead.
This has two issues. First, treb wars are an iconic part of the game, both for playing and watching, and spectating games feels bland for civs that don’t have that as an option. Second, Traction Trebuchets are inferior to Trebuchets in every way, except for being able to move. They have less range, less attack, less HP, and much less bonus damage against buildings. They also take longer to train, which means that a 3K civ trying to compete with a normal civ can’t even get their Treb equivalent out at the same time.
They are more comparable to Bombard Cannons, and, in my opinion, should be considered a replacement to that unit instead of the Treb. Normal Trebs are just way too important to game balance to leave out of ANY civilization. Tweak the Traction Trebuchet’s stats to bring it closer to BBCs and give the 3K civs Trebuchets. They can’t compete without them.
If adding manpower (garrisoning infantry or villagers) made these things move/fire faster and farther (as would occur in reality) they would be much cooler, I suspect.
Devs try to make 3K more historical accurate. Afaik, counterweight trebuchet was introduced to China during Mongol invasion (Mongols learn from Arab). But traction trebuchet does not seem to suit well in this game. This is another example of 3K being not fish nor fowl.
Couldn’t you say the same thing about Knights or Cavalry in general, yet there are civilisations that can’t build a stable.
Imagine how outraged people would be if Aztecs, Mayans and Inca would be added to the game now. They would shout that it’s crazy to have civilisations without a stable and maybe even ask people to boycott the game.
Of course it’s different to not have Trebs but it’s something we’ll get used to.
It’s also only 3 civilisations, most matches will still be Treb vs. Treb. It will certainly not disappear from the game.
AoK and AoC civilisations are way less historically accurate then more recent additions.
There are many reasons why people want old civs, especially Eagle civs, to be reworked.
I do want NA civs to have more regional units (why do they only get eagles while some civs get 3~4?), but I don’t think there’d be a good alternative to trebs. I can tell tractrebs aren’t.
I guess difference is that meso civs were engaged in conflicts with european civs invading America in usual AOE2 timeline, 3K civs are way off
Trebs for Aztec might be incorrect way of balancing game mechanic, but at least they belong to time frame and setting
No, they don’t. You could simply buff the civs in some other way, rather than turning them generic by giving them a normal Trebuchet from a castle.
Or simply buff the Traction Trebuchet. By lowering their cost even further, or lowering their train time.
The Traction Trebuchet does not require chemistry. They are good on Arena. Some of the civs have very powerful bonuses regarding their Traction Trebuchets; especially but the castle technology. The slower train time is justified since stone is a rare resource.
Treb wars are already very unbalanced depending on the civ anyway, you’re simply not winning if facing Britons with Warwolf or Japanese using Kataparuto to stay mobile.
Do traction trebuchets actually have to engage in treb wars? I haven’t tested them, but I expect that with their mobility, they can avoid enemy trebuchet projectiles and focus on taking down the enemy castle instead.
I do expect them to be difficult to balance though – even with their high cost they’ll be easier to mass than trebuchets. It’s easy to imagine that either they’ll be far too good at taking down castles, or laughably bad at it, and that small changes in stats could tip the balance the other way.
Presumably Huns are one of the best, with extra accuracy that doesn’t require a unique tech?
Maybe that is a balance to the treb void