Laughs in Aztecs who have been S tier in both maps since the Conquerors
Better see them doing very well than not being ever picked
They indeed are a pretty strong strong and fairly versatile civs but that’s a bit exaggerated, isn’t it? Arena: S-tier or not be a bit controversial but let’s say it’s a fair point to put them there (although not strong as a civ like Teutons or Aztecs). Arabia: In the kotd3 arabia for sure among the strongest because aggressive openings are very crucial, here, and scouts are often see but on the closed arabia generations (pre-patch) they aren’t that strong. Hybrid maps: Very good on cross because of earlier dock but I don’t see them being as strong on other hybrid maps. So altogether a very powerful civ and arguably s-tier on some maps but you make it sound like it’s the best civ aoe2 has ever seen.
weve had two balance patches since the Leitis was buffed. in one of those they nerfed what they deemed a problematic unit. if they deemed the Leitis to be an issue, why didn’t they nerf the Leitis then?
really? just ran through clown cup 3.
aside form that one game you linked, where admittedly leitis had a strong showing, Lithuanians were used 4 times, winning 2 games, and losing the other 3. so a total of 5 uses, is an S Tier Civ now?
and Leitis were seen once. thats totally a Leitis fest guys!
even in games that went to imperial age leitis were rarely seen in KotD3, and in RBW2 we saw lithuanians 9 times, again almost always without leitis, so yeah Leitis bust be so OP that you are hanging your hat on the ONE GAME that leitis were made in Clown Cup 3.
in every tournament? 5 uses in Clown Cup 3? with a 40% winrate? 9 times in RBW2 with 5 wins and 4 losses?
what about NAC3 and HC3 where they saw 3 or 4 uses combined between the two of them? totally overpresent there weren’t they?
oh. how about BoA 2? lets see
10 civs picked less then them, that means 22 were picked more. with a 44% winrate. totally overpowered man.
you said clown cup 3 was a leitis fest - but we only saw Lithuanians 5 times, and only saw leitis one time. so are you lying or just making stuff up? either way you are wrong
you said that you keep track of tournaments and that Lithuanians were over present everywhere.
and yet what do we see? in all but 2 tournaments Lithuanians saw minimal use.
so were you lying or just making stuff up? either way you are wrong.
Sorry but even the pros and casters don’t put them on S Tier on Arena or Arabia
even in the current tournament, where they are among the most used civilization, there winrates remain firmly in check at 52% winrate (16 wins 15 losses) and that includes 2 freebie wins from top 4 players playing bottom 4 players.
so i have to ask @MostDragon80736, @CheshireWig3203, and @Parthnan, just how much false information are you guys spreading around? how much fake information are you guys doctoring up and supporting?
lets see - you claimed and supported that the clown cup 3 was a leitis/Lithuanians fest. we saw Leitis in one game, and Lithuanians in 5 games.
those claims can safely be called false.
you claimed that Lithuanians were s tier on Arena. we saw them 5 times in Clown Cup 3. and the pros disagree with you on this as well.
those claims can safely be called false.
you claimed that the leitis wasn’t seen in KotD3 because the games were too short - but even in the long games they aren’t seen much at all. we can safely call this information false.
you claimed that Lithuanians were overpresent in every single tournament. we have numbers that can show that this information is false, as they didn’t see much play at all until the two most recent tournaments (RBW2 and KotD3), and even there the winrates of the civ remain in check and the Leitis is rarely seen.
we can safely say this information is false as well.
Got to say guys, those facts don’t care for your feelings or exaggerations. maybe you should rethink making up and supporting false information.
except he’s not correct, he actually lies or exaggerates quite a bit in his post. but hey, you’ve admitted yourself that you like exaggerating to make your point, so of course you would support it.’
i mean you even have to put disclaimers on your argument to make it look fair like this
which means you care more about hypothetical situations without actually taking real game situations into account.
except it is not fair to call them s tier. in the clown cup 3 they saw use 5 times, winning twice.
bingo, the open map is certainly helping them, but even then there win rates are absolutely balanced.
exactly. and his arguments are already bunk as you can read above. he called the Clown Cup 3 a leitis fest, but we saw the Leitis once. sounds to me like hes prone to at best exaggeration to make his point look better to the masses (something parthnan loves to do himself if you’ve followed his post history), and at worst, straight up lying.
90% of the pros have stated that Leitis are completely broken, last time Hearttt_ said that. + BOA2 was before pre-OPLeitis.
I won’t repeat myself again, but Lithuanians won 99% of the games before Imperial Age with Knights. Elite Leitis completely dominate the game.
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and yet it hasn’t been nerfed yet. doesn’t matter. the claim he made was that he kept track of all tournaments and that Lithuanians were over represented in ALL tournaments.
and yet so far we have maybe two where you could say they were overpresent and one of those is designed in such a way to favor Lithuanians (Empire Wars).
and yet we already proved this wrong with your arguments earlier. your arguments involve unfair resource investment completely in the lithuanians favor. even the 30 vs 30 has 85 extra gold, 650 extra stone, and almost 900 more food invested into the fight.
but hey, keep hanging your hat on imbalanced fights.
imagine if i made an argument that 10 knights beat 10 crossbows. is that a fair argument? NO. the resources invested between them isn’t anywhere close to what you would see in a game at that point.
so you can absolutely be sure if you are going to support his post, (which you clearly did, you liked it and didn’t point out the issues that i pointed out above), that i am going to point out that you’re spreading false information.
but you know what @CheshireWig3203, you said the Elite Leitis was the issue, so go ahead and nerf the Elite Leitis for all i care, just make sure you leave the normal leitis alone, as even you admited its not an issue.
They were banned after the first rounds while the so-called op civ Aztecs was not… Dont ignore the banned civs statistics… That is the reason why we didnt see them in the cc finals for instance, they were banned In CC3 we had a development of people realizing how strong Lith are and started to ban them in the later rounds.
And if you would link the correct tier list post CC3 by OrnLU you would find Lith there as S-Tier.
PS: I hope you learn one can correct and discuss with people without calling them intentional liars. But we all are here to learn and improve 
What are hybrid maps where you dont have the hybrid map build order with dock instead mill ? Lith work on all these kinds of maps that are not full water…
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except they saw play. and even the pros only put them on A tier, not S Tier.
you were the one who called it a Leitis fest. clearly it was not.
except why would tehy be banned? in the 4 uses in the first round they went 2 and 2. hardly stellar numbers.
and a few weeks later he changed his mind and knocked them down to A Tier, what’s that tell you?
considering you said that CC3 was a Leitis fest and we saw Leitis in one game, what would you call someone who makes such a claim?
I would never 
You know creating a non-toxic environment is important otherwise a forum is called a clown fest where very few people create a very unpleasant environment and are only to laugh on.
My bad I mixed up the dates when he made is arena tier lists. However I have seen tierlists of clowns that had them at S-tier. The fact they were under the banned civs in the finals of cc3 shows that they are more than just a 2/2 civ in the first rounds. When weaker players lose with them it doesnt make them weak
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so i just perused the quarter finals and 2 series had them banned, and 2 did not. as for the semi finals, clearly they weren’t banned in hera vs Viper, they were in tatoh vs Modri, but they also weren’t banned in Tatoh vs Viper.
so your argument comes down to 3 series they got banned in. the other 4 series they weren’t banned in and saw play in one of them.
hmm. once again looks like you are making information up.
so when you claimed that clown cup 3 was a Leitis fest, and the Leitis was only used in one series in Clown Cup 3, what do you call that? there is a wide range of things that could be true
at best you are misremembering the clown cup 3 and how it actually played out.
they weren’t banned in the finals though. nice try. more false information from you. Teutons, Malay, Vietnamese and Britons. no Lithuanians ban. they also only got banned 3 times from the QF onwards, despite your claims they were banned all the time. not banned in 4 series, and only used once, that screams S Tier OP civ to me.
good to see @CheshireWig3203 still supports false information as well! this tells me all i need to know about arguments from the 3 of you in the future. they are made in bad faith with bad information.
False information?
Like Goths, Teutons, Condottieros overpowered, Lithuanians are crap and only carried by UU?
and my opinion on all those has clearly changed over time. when was the last time you saw me call Goths or Teutons too strong? Condos? i never said they were overpowered. i said i had concerns about them, and that they were something i was watching. my opinion has changed on them. Lithuanians were crap for a long time but several things changed - the new more open arabia favors them, the melee pathing being better helps them. here is the difference - you don’t see me staying true to those statements anymore do you? i have since moved on from Teutosn and Goths need nerfs. i have moved on from Condos might need nerfs. i actually support nerfing Lithuanians slightly
but here you are clearly still spreading misinformation about the Leitis, even after its been debunked a while ago. and your entire argument for the nerfing of them is based ENTIRELY on balance in a vacuum, where you ignore the economy needed for the units, the cost to upgrade the units, and everything else. in other words, it doesn’t apply to real game play.
not to mention all the support you have thrown mostdragons post without looking into the truth of his claims. even after i pointed out the inconsistencies in the original post you supported his follow up posts without actually looking into the truth of the matter.
or do you truly believe one series means that clown cup 3 was a leitis fest?
or do you truly believe that Lithuanians have been overused in every single tournament like he claims?
No. I like to play with civs that are more than a race to get the castle.
I love playing teutones because the pikes and palas.
Or Bulgaria s with their insane husar.
Some bonus civs make a generic unit in a UU
Btw tarkas will destroy your entre City before you can react. They’re lousy fighting, but if you manage to sneak them into the enemy base, they completely destroy the city in a few seconds.
again, as a persian player
persians are already strong, don’t change that
Guess Pathan wont answer since hes banned again in the forum
Point is that on cross fishing has a bigger impact than on other hybrid maps where you might only have a couple of fishing ships because in early feudal you’ll use your docks for military production. Here, having a dock a bit earlier isn’t as important as on a map like cross where fish is in the corner and comparatively safe. Lithuanians would also be decent on those maps because you can use your bonus to click up earlier (the mongol effect) but they aren’t an s-tier civ. I also wouldn’t call them s-tier on cross because civs like japanese or persians have much better bonuses but still think cross is their best hybrid map.
On nomad it matters according to Ornlu. I think they are a good civ on any hybrid map still just because you can get wood so early.
Leitis will be rightfully nerfed now in the upcoming “BIG” “OCTOBER” patch.
Try your usual line of argument now, now that we know almost for certain it’s gonna happen.
You see, arguing that something hasn’t been nerfed/buffed yet isn’t grounds at all to refute a proposed buff/nerf, because the balance changes will never be close to complete.
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It will be one of the biggest mistakes in this game’s history, and I honestly think it will be rolled back soon after Lithuanians just stop being played, like they were on release.
If throwing axeman are archers then mamelikes ar too. Since they are not, mamelikes need the archer class removed!
mounted thwoing axeman lives matter.
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