Yeah this could be potentially broken on Arena, especially in 1v1
you won’t run out of gold anymore, at least Burgundian Vineyards is still an investment on every farm, while woods are much, much more abundant in the map.
Not relevant considering Vietnamese haven’t received any changes since then, except maybe the +100HP on Chatras but that doesn’t change much.
Yeah, I think a permanent effect of paper money would be too much considering Vietnamese strong lategame.
Imo just moving the tech from imp to castle and making it cheaper could work.
Burgundian Vineyards isn’t as problematic as burgundian lategame (outside of that tech) is quite weak, but a comparable bonus to a strong lategame civ like viets could be broken indeed.
Why is this community is obsessed with gold. Further more your suggestion makes 0 sense in terms of playability, you bring nothing to the table from a gaming experience point of view.
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And yet age of statistics have them mid pack, not bottom 5.
If you want a trickle of gold pick up some relics lmao.
Switching the techs doesn’t make sense, you’d instantly buy stone and be able to have a 20 minute double castle drop.
Have you heard about that insane civ that gets castles 25 % cheaper?
Do you know that buying stone is so much more expensive?
You know that paper money takes a minute to research?
Only on 1700 + and they are clearly sub average there aswell.
Why you are ignoring everything below high elo? I mean you are clearly out of that range, so why you are using it to make your arguments?
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Because balance is done around the top. When a player can win with teuton cav archers or tatar long swords balance isn’t the reason you win or lose.
Besides, it’s an Imp tech too right?
Yes, you’d get zero gold from any wood collected through Dark, Feudal and Castle Age. This is just a trickle starting in Imperial, after researching the tech. Obviously it should not be comparable to the Polish gold from stone rate (half a free gold miner from every stone miner). It could be somewhere in the range of 15-20 lumberjacks giving 1 effective gold miner.
With 30 lumberjacks you’d end up with about 1.5 to 2 relics of gold income, giving 500 gold over the next 8 to 11 minutes. This is similar to the Aztec 33% increase team bonus with 5 relics. It is arguably a stronger bonus than Aztecs’, since on average they’ll get more like 3 relics, but Paper Money doesn’t work in Castle Age, has a cost of 500 food + 400 wood, requires a Castle (and research time that means not making trebs), and doesn’t apply to allies. Paper money also would do nothing in cases like Islands when you run out of wood, while the Aztec relics or Portuguese feitoria still work great.
Just one hypothetical value, it could go up or down for balance.
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One change that could be done to the tech would be to add Hand Cannoneers to the Vietnamese Tech Tree and have the reworked Paper Money tech be a buff for them as a reference to the Jiaozhi Arquebuses, said Hand Cannoneers would also nicely synergize with the +20% additional health for Archery Range units bonus and round out the strong versatile ranged theme of the civ.
I actually made for myself a mod that does exactly that to make playing through the Le Loi Campaign a little bit more interesting, the effect I went for in the mod is Thumb Ring (100% Accuracy + 18% Fire Rate) for Hand Cannoneers (which additionally have 50 HP thanks to the previously mentioned Archery Range unit bonus).
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Just like Huns atheism? Dai Viet surely needs a 2nd effect on this UT
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No objection to adjusting Paper Money, but I think it must maintain its characteristics as an emergency button, and must maintain the identity of economic technology, and should not be mixed with the effect of military unit bonuses. It is monetary reform, not military reform.
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Give better prices on Market as a 2nd effect
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In the first place, why? Why would you give gold trickle to an offensive civ, strong anti-archer in castle age, that can create units fast asap in imperial age.
I don’t think it’s good, and even if you switch it to castle age, you’ll lose your meatshields and push power. Viets are fine as they are when it comes to their offensive punch. And the current paper money serves its purpose. So why? Burgundians get it because they need eco recovery.
I get it. Paper money looks useless. Elephants are expensive so you can’t train an army of them with castle age eco, and people think that it’s better to buff them in imperial and use them there. But you don’t need 10 of them for an effective push in castle age with the current viets. Why trade the possibility to have pseudo-rams with trample damage for the possibility of 2 or 3 extra knights (or so) in castle age. Besides, the current paper money gives 500 gold right away.
I get it. Gold trickle and tech switching looks nice on paper. Sure. But remember that -100 wood for stables and a.ranges for cumans also looked nice in pup. I was amazed to see most people on this forum were ok with that back then, as I’m amazed to see this now.
Just increase the gold or add a permanent effect and call it a day.
Saracens already have only 5% fee. What better price you want? 4%? Or something like 0%? So 100 food = 20 gold.
I don’t think they are so much offensive. Free conscription with instant 500 gold is good for an early imp push, but not better than some other archer civ like Britons or even Vikings.
With the change there is actually a chance that it will make them weaker in the early imp that you are concerned. If 30 lumberjack = 1 relic and you have 40 lumberjack working, you still need 12 and a half minutes only to get the 500 gold you are supposed to get instantly. After that, there will be profit.
Remove Guilds, and make Paper Money able to reduce the fee to 10%.
More than Saracen but less than other civs with Guilds. It should be workable.
More importantly, pretty fit its name. People use paper money to trade at marketplaces.
Someone is waiting till Imperial and paying a price for a tech but still getting less advantage than a free dark age bonus doesn’t sound good.
In fact, it is good.
Viets have their own civ bonus, and Paper Money still gives gold for emergency. It is fair.
The Viets have a dish of beef for free at the beginning, and the Saracens have a dish of fish for free at the beginning. Now the Viets have a chance to also get an small dish of fish. Should not the Viets pay for this extra dish?
The whole idea someone getting an worse version of another civs bonus doesn’t sound good to me. Regardless of whatever other bonuses they have. Also I don’t think we have so little left that we have to overlap bonuses.
[Really hate new Indians +1PA that somewhat made them balanced in both 1v1 and TG]