Abbasid changes to be more on par with the 3 words devs gave them

Age of Empires IV IV - Discussion
1

image

Abbasid is best played with 2 town center openers at the current meta. (Fresh Foodstuffs, allows you to make 2 vills for the price of 1, making your economy grow without delaying army as much as other CIVs) This is a strength of Abbasid, however because of Fresh Foodstuffs the devs thought it was better to reduce that amount of food elsewhere, their castle age food production is one of the bigger economies buff you could have. Don’t get me wrong, with the buffs I am giving them they should become your next CIV to choose from if you want to feudal invade your enemies as well, I am not blind from the fact that they don’t need any research time for making rams. Which is something Abbasid should be great at as well. Don’t forget, their ability to make Mangonels on the fly is already strong for your enemy not making any springwalds. The fact that Mangonels don’t have to move a long distance but are immediately on the battlefield can really make an edge in your victories.

These are some buffs if I would solely think about 3 words “Research, Anti-Cavalry, Golden Age”

Phalanx should get speed bonus towards all cavalry units. When activated on one of the spearmen.
(+0.5 tiles/s for 5 second, just like the Khan Buff – Maneuver Arrow, gives them edge vs knight invades.)

While Abbasid’s Camels could use some love (They are unique, but they definitely not on par with other unique units, that are either cheaper or get more worth out of a unique unit), my balance change for camel archer/rider would be…

Composite bow should be unlocked at Castle Age, and also work for camel archers.

General for Camels:
Reduce their need for food by 80 (instead of 180 to 100)
Make the melee/pierce armor scale like: Camel Archer: 1/1, 2/2, 3/3. Camel Rider: 2/2 3/3
This way they are more on par vs other units. But not as good as knight scaling.

Camel Rider: Increase their Attack bonus from 18 to 30 vs cavalry (regular) 20 to 40 (elite)
They require a bit more punch in order to be more on par to counter knights, This way they will become the best Anti-Cavalry CIV.

Camel Archers, will be your best pick vs spears, while also been able to deal a bit better vs MASS archer, even though most archers overkill anyway.

Make all research in their dynasty building 60 seconds that are currently 90 seconds. This will give them an edge “Research Based”.

Make the Golden Age bonus for structures less…
T1 = 8 Buildings. (From 10) (Gives them an edge to quicker get their resource gather rates up)
T2 = 22 Buildings. (From 30) (Makes sure they stay viable earlier in the game)
T3 = 45 Buildings. (From 60) (makes sure that Abbasid’s don’t fall behind too much in the later stages of the game, by getting this earlier as well.)

4 Likes
2

Where do you get this idea from? Camel Rider have faster attack speed than Knights by a lot

3

as an Abbasid player, these are all the things I wished would be changed. Camel rider feels so useless against cavalry, is more expensive food wise, and is squishy.

so I’m saying yes to all these buffs knowing their late game is still weak, these changes make it more of a castle age peak civ! LOVE IT it goes with their short dynasty history IMO.

3 Likes
4

Your right, I adjusted it.

5

The price of camel archers was too high for 180 food in the feudal era. I can upgrade to the Castle Age with only 6.5 camels, but he only has 10 attack power.

I can have 40 archers with the same food

2 Likes
7

yes, and no.
Camel archers has awesome bonus -20% of cavalry attack, so u need 1 or 2 to reduce enemies dmg.

Devs should be very careful with adjustments of Camel archers. Or we will recieve another RUS CA but in T2.

Just saying that any adjustments with multiplier like x2 is very dangerous.

8

But now he is not balanced, he needs to adjust :sob: :sob:

9

I think Camel Archers are mostly fine. When you pick military wing and use them as support with archers and spears, you’re ahead expect against maa. And this bonus will carry on with crossbows and gunners alike, even though dimishing.

Camel riders are total useless atm however. I think it is supposed to be a meaty support unit, but it needs more health and you better don’t research camel speed, as it will out run your other cav and die first. I think I want to have more of an slow elephant like camel rider, supporting melee infantry, maybe even putting it into baracks and leaving regular cav without a support unit. Or add another one, I don’t know, but with horsemen being too weak, there’s no straight way for going cav+range or even inf+cav+range without gimping yourself.

1 Like
10

Camel riders are actually quite good vs French, their main issue is being an expensive unit that is only good vs cav, which means it’s basically only worth building them vs France since horseman have been nerfed into the ground. Also, Abbasids already have great spearman so if playing an infantry comp its much easier to just go spears.

Camel units are just a bit too expensive or niche to be a powerful unique unit like longbows royal knights or strelski. Both them and landsknecht need a little love since the devs said they want unique units to be units that are good vs more unit types or have less unit counters than generic units so that they are commonly built units. Right now it’s usually best for abbasids to go full infantry and siege rather than use their uniques even if they are situationally good.

Camels are quite good imp units as they are very pop-efficient, but it’s hard to justify them in castle.

11

Why do most players fail in the game?

12

The normal point heavy armored cavalry in the 4 era was 42 attacks. The camel is 10 :heavy_plus_sign: 20. Minus 20% is 33,6. Camels attack faster, but France has a lot of technology

13

The charge attack maybe, a FU knight has 32 attack (~25.5 after debuff), assuming you don’t have military wing camel tech that is 20.5 damage (only 17.5 damage if you did go military wing for +3 armor) while the camel is attacking for 24 after armor and the camel has more hp (even with the French unique better cav hp tech). Also the Abbasids can mix in knights which will be bettter than the opponents knights due to not having an attack debuff.

So not only do camel riders do more damage, they have more hp, move faster and attack ~25% faster (although they are much worse vs non-cav and don’t have a charge attack)

14

I think the changes that I have mentioned here. Should make them more commonly made vs cavalry, . To my opinion a lot of unique units can’t be used against everything, zhuge nu deal no damage to heavy units as example. But at least their cost is lowered since last patch.

I personally think the whole aura is a bit overrated, and not too much off a deal, but if you think that’s the reason they will be too strong because you have consistent aura on vs Abbasid, you can delay it by making it tech instead. But at least make the unit more of valid pick. They can’t handle any damage that’s why I think giving them some armour but not as much armour as knights should do the trick, and lowering price would make sense if they don’t have the buff out from the very start. But can research it for a certain price instead.

Overall, if the dev mind was they need to be high cost because of the aura, That’s how I would fix it. Just make the unit solid and add the aura after researching. camal is right now dies very quickly to anything else. Because of no armour. They might have 50 HP more then a knight. But fighting vs a boar it has 75 HP left and a knight only lost 50 HP in total. Making it a unit specialized for cav and needs to be way tankier to be able to punish cav. Right now every game consistently goes into knights. Or teams games for that matter would love to see the camal raise.

1 Like
15

Although the introduction states that Zhuge Crossbow cannot cause damage to heavy armor
, But I saw Zhuge Crossbow melted the samurai in the game. He has three levels of damage. The smithy upgrades once but damages X3. :sweat_smile: :sweat_smile: :sweat_smile: :sob:

16

The difference is that zhuge nu and longbow are good vs many units so it is a generically good unit, camel riders already do well vs cav but pretty weak against anything else, just being an expensive meatshield. Even if they demolished cav you still wouldn’t see them used right now because frankly cavalry except for horse archers just aren’t that good right now.

Abbasids don’t struggle vs cav as it is, it’s just the opponent can go any non-cav unit and generally win that way. Abbasids have a mediocre matchup vs most non-French civs right now.

2 Likes
17

Really great suggestions.

18

still camel archers are way too expensive, their range is too short

19

agreed and production speed makes them even less viable, You can’t counter Royal knights with Camel riders in Castle age. Should consider make Camel riders available in Feudal?

20

umm, Wonder is fine since it’s for everyone but building game on landmark victory and giving abbasid 2 landmarks and chinese 9 landmarks? That’s not balanced to any human with a brain

1 Like
21

I made another thread but I like done of these ideas. I agree with the idea of making camel riders available in fedual age. Camel riders also need a charge speed boost like every other melee calvary has. The 15% speed boost needs to become a fedual age upgrade. Lastly suggest that half the camel upgrades be innate in order to make the counter system viable early with the potential to grow stronger BUT never broken.