After playing quite a lot with Abbasid and following the meta here are my suggestions
1.) Traders should be camels, so they can benefit from the military wing and faster movement speed and it would make your traders way harder to kill thanks to the movement speed bonus and additional armor. If this should be included, nerfing a bit the trading effiency upgrade would be fine, from 30% down to 20-25%
2.) Fresh food stuff, reduce the cost per villager by 15-20, not 25. I want to have a hard time thinking what to choose, because everything is equally viable and offers different options and builds to go for.
3.) Camel Rider should have more base damage to make them more useful vs everything else and reduce their bonus damage in return. Instead of 9/+18 Bonus damage, 18 + 9 Bonus Damage
4.) preservation of knowledge should also increase research time by 25% and in feudal age provides 40% discount, castle age 30% and in imp 20%, to make up for the slow aging up and waiting for this technology to kick in and then research your techs. Then it would be a viable choice to go for in feudal age and single tc into fast caslte and has some strategy to it. Should u take the tech before again up? Bcs of the bigger discount or do you age up first?
5.) Reduce the required buildings from Golden Age to 10, 20, 40. It takes a lot of your time to build everything together and in later stages just not usefull to have your production buildings so close to your base. you need to expand sooner or later and if you switch to farms, your base has not as much space to do it efficient and secured and it cost you extra wood.
6.) Golden Age: I would like to have smth else then research time as an last benefit, you will get it pretty late and it isn’t so useful at this time anymore. A discount on your buildings would be super nice and i might consider again building at home and getting more production buildings up by getting a discount of 20%.
7.) Reduce the cost from Agriculture from 200 wood 500 Gold to 150 Wood 300 Gold to make it more viable and an addition in castle age instead an lategame tech only
8.) Camel Archers by design is a lategame unit right now but available in feudal age, so its main purpose is to buff infantrie or debuff cav. The Bonus damage vs light melee infantry isnt so useful either, they can already choose to fight spearmen or not and fulfill the same role as Archers to counter spearmen. Reducing their cost and hp would make them more viable, but we have already rus cav archers. I like the idea of a more tanky, good per pop space mobile range unit. Just not in feudal age pls. The Camel Rider would be better suited in this age. Instead of bonus damage to light infantry, the camel archer could have Bonus damage vs ranged Cav. That would make them way more useful and would fit the concept of Camels scare Horses.
9.) I would rather like to have Camel Rider in feudal Age, to be able to defend better vs knights / horsemen and have a Unit that is more viable if buffed in castle age. Speed is such a bit factor and while spearmen is a good counter they lack speed and you start spreading them accross your economy to defend your villagers and put yourself into the defending position and this would make defending agression from other civs much more enjoyable as abbasid.
10.) Camel Rider Shields (+3 Melee Armor for Camel Riders), reduce its cost from 300 food 700 Gold to 200 food 500 Gold. It could be a nice tech in Castle Age to help Camel Riders perform better mainly vs M@A, but to expensive to take in castle age. Even if the Camel Rider gets buffed. So it would be an Imp tech aswell for most games.
11.) Going up with no bonus technologies included and you have to pay to get the benefits on top of it. Together with the maximum aging up time of 2 mins, puts you in a lot of matchups in a tough spot. I would like to have it connected with the Golden Age, where you get up double as quick up if you build 10,20,40 structures. While aging up, it should be possible to increase it even if the aging up is already going. So you build extra buildings for an non-optimal fast aging uptime. This would be super interesting to figure out different build orders that put you into the next age fast while not wasting too much resources on buildings
12.) Increase a bit the cost of building Mangonels and Springalds on the field by 20%
Specially buffing the Camel Rider and if traders are Camels, that would not just fit perfectly to them, it would also make Abbasid the trading Civ. Where you could switch to trading in castle age forward and have tools to defend them.
I would like to have more diversity and deeper decision-making by playing them.
Golden age speeding up age up would be pretty cool.
I would avoid nerfing mango/springald cost unless mongols get the same treatment.
It’s pretty weird the castle age camel shield tech is the same cost as most imp techs, wonder if that’s intentional.
The last golden age is actually military production, research speed comes at tier 2.
Yeh i think Mongols should get the same nerf. Just so you consider building it more cost-efficient at home and there is some kind of tradeoff. It is already really strong that you can build it on field. Yeh you are right, the research time is Tier 2. It could be fine then.
I don’t mind the build cost in the field, because if they changed that, they would probably have to recode it as a whole new unit (like they did with clocktower units).
I do think it should be change, maybe build time? You can get them out in the field so fast it’s crazy.
The idea of traders being camels and being effected by the speed bonus is a great idea. I woudn t agree on nerfing fresh food stocks rather buffing the other options would be way more in line with other civs that are on the top, Abbasid seems rather on the weaker side and the unique units for sure need more attention I barely ever make them because I just want to overwhelm with better eco and then replace lost units with siege asp at the front. This makes them really versatile at the offense, since u can adapt to your enemy on the fly. So increasing the cost of siege build with infantry would nerf the only strong part of the civ and would feel awful. I also agree that the house of learning stage 3 requires a change, 60 buildings is way too many, I would make it 50 buildings since for 60 u have to spam houses like everywhere it’s insane how long it takes to just build 40 houses just to get the bonus. On top of that since siege cost mostly wood and very single building requires wood so u have to decide to: Do I want more siege to actually win or do i want to advance in my house of learning. Furthermore, I would suggest that u get 1 free tec in the house of learning for every time u age up it would still take the time to research, but it’s free would make their build order a lot more tight and would actually help with their biggest problem of always being a bit late on the age up. When it comes to age 3 it would shave off about 10-20s to the next age up, which would help dramatically since your castle age is usually 1-3min behind depending on either 1 or 2 TC added in age 2. This feedback is based on my very macro oriented play style, with a heavy focus on overwhelming in castle age with infantry and siege units.
I have heard the camel trading thing before. My only concern is Abbasids already have the best trade in the game, so if they get other buffs (especially in team games) it may end up being too strong.
usually I find myself pretty close to 60 in post-imp and making a couple extra buildings is worth it. I definitely see the argument to reduce it slightly, maybe 50 would be more reasonable.
I was also close to put it as an suggestion, but you get then also a decent bonus by aging up and being able to upgrade multiple techs later on, on top of it. Might be a bit to much!? If other civs dont change, then it would be not op at all and i agree should be a thing. I had also all my other suggestions in mind. But yeh i was so often in the situation right now that I wished it would be included at the moment this way, just get the one in this wing for free by aging up.
You are right i would not nerf Fresh food stocks at all when the other top Civs stay the way they are. I hope they will adjust them as well to reduce some rly strong things, like the ovoo by mongols for example. It got rly clear now that some elements are just overtuned and i hope they get nerfed as well. I just looked at the Abbasid itself and not so much in comparison to the other top civs, that are too strong in some parts, I’m confident that we will see there some nerfs. If the devs should decide to keep the very strong techs / landmarks some other civs have, Abbasid should remain the Fresh Food Stocks as it is.
I want in some month to have a hard time to choose a wing and not allways go for economy wing 1. and then be motivated to go for double TC
You are right, the overall efficiency should not be rly changed, that’s why I suggested also a nerf in the trading efficiency accordingly, just make them for a single player harder to kill and you have a more secured trading going on. +15% movement speed and 10% less extra gold from the first trading wing, would make a rough 5% boost in total, while you have to research another tech to benefit from the speed.
So it stays similar like it is now, just so it is a more viable option in 1v1s even if you are not super ahead or fully walled.
In the very last dev video the devs themselves said, that mongols is the standard they want to reach with all the civs which would mean buffing others and not nerfing mongols which is obviously a lot harder to do, but I agree with the devs that buffing other civs would make the game overall better than nerfing civs that are to strong at least for now.
I did not know that, they rly went for a challenge there
agree, crazy that it takes only 5-6 sec to make the Springald with 14 infantry power building it, also apply to Mongol as well
Genius design. I really hope devs can take this change into consideration. This change can let abbasid be much more interesting than current state.
When people at the top seem more up for playing Delhi despite a mountain of bugs than Abbasid, I’d be concerned about any nerfs.
I think it would be a good bonus if you got the initial Wing-Tech for free.
As I see it Abbasid are paying through the nose for that ability to make rams without researching siege engineering - and then the ability to make Mangonels and Springalds in the field. This is undoubtedly useful - but lack of comparative bonuses everywhere else really hurts. Ram rushing and Springalds meanwhile have both been nerfed.
So for example, you can take the Trade Wing. But will you get better trade than French or Mongols taking their respective trade Landmark? Maybe in Post Imperial - but it will be quite some time to reach there. And the French+Mongols get all their faction bonuses to help this process if they want to go down this route. You… can make rams a bit quicker. Which isn’t really helping at all.
You can take the culture wing - and yes, 30% off some expensive Imperial Techs adds up. But French (again - mainly as an example) get 30% of econ techs just for showing up. Plus all the rest. So if you go 1 TC Culture Wing, you are miles behind.
Fresh Foodstuffs is the only one people look at with envy - and frankly its not all that unless you have say 3 TCs, which isn’t typically viable on most maps.
I feel this is tied up with the lack of clarity on when golden age bonuses are meant to apply.
I.E. you compare it to the Rus Bounty mechanic. Unless you basically don’t try - you are essentially guaranteed to get tier 2 Bounty (and all the gold that entails a long the way). Tier 3 is a bit more difficult/map dependent - and your opponent can stop it - but tier 2 feels like a gimmie.
By contrast the Abbasid bonus is much more taxing. Okay, you’ll get level 1 shortly after you hit feudal. You then however need a further 20 buildings to get level 2 - which you likely won’t manage until imperial. Level 3 can happen once you go full on post-Imperial bloat (i.e. I want 10 barracks and 6 archery ranges and 6 stables and three keeps and and and) - but that’s incredibly late game. Even if throwing down 20 redundant houses is only 1k wood, it doesn’t “feel good” as a mechanic.
Agree on the Trade Wing. Agree partly on the Culture Wing.
For the Golden Age. Comparing it to Rus Bounty, for Rus bounty it only boosts food. Golden Age boosts all, still i agree that 60 is a bit too much. 50 would be better, also UI improvement to have the building count shown over the Pop Level would be really nice.
In order to achieve it quickly my solution is mostly:
Towers, Towers everywhere. With Springalds on Top.
Love it to have a 30 Horsearcher group entering my Messy City but only 15 Leave cause they get springald sniped to hell.
In general for me the rule is, if i am able to get fish eco, i go culture, if not i go fresh food stocks and rush second tc. 9 out of 10 times you will loose water, but it is enough to get into Castle Age and then get Fresh Food Stocks + have some cheap upgrades already.
Edit: I did some ridicoulous feudal Age trade Wing yesterday in a 4v4, and by the time i hit imp i had 5 Markets 95 Traders and on one return i got 30K gold + 12 K secondary resources. That was around minute 25.
I am purple.
I have no idea how to make it a viable build, and the high return was only because huge 4v4 map.
The mega Spike in GOld income was when i stopped trading with the neutral market close to my base and set up proper trade route to allied market on the other side of the map. All Traders went there in one big caravan.
Had my other Villagers solely on food and have the Caravan bring back Wood. Could have deleted more vills, bought my self Castle + Imp. Timings were not too bad.
You are right, I did not know the devs had in mind to bring everything up to Mongol level. Then my suggestions would tend to buff them as a whole just.
It is just a sum of ideas, that point out some of Abbasid’s issues, it is up to the devs to decide what balance approach they want to take from here on forward.
Sadly the game has so many other issues then the balancing of the civs, i doubt it will work out all nicely in the near future. I will give it another try when the spring update is there.
I could mention stuff for ages, but in the end it is just my opinion and i see some ppl are fine the way it is.
Honestly i try to link everything with houses and put more villagers on wood early on. So i can benefit from the golden age bonusses as soon as possible. So usually when i enter feudal i have 30 buildings. Most dark age buildigns cost 50 wood. Only the barracks is quite expensive in that sense. And houses count. So i tend to expand more gathering buildings in advance and link those with some houses. So i always have one villager that is already building. Than when i’m usually clicking imp age i have 60 buildings, mostly military buildigns and several armories. Which also stimulates to get your military upgrades faster.
I really like these ideas!
And they really need more late game military upgrades, especially more anti heavy cavalry bonusses.
It turns out the tooltip is wrong or Golden Age is bugged.
You don’t have to connect all the buildings to get the Golden Age.
You get just the +5 fire dmg resistance
what do you mean? i think you are mistaken. Buildings need to be connected for the golden age…
@JuryMusic777863 There is a bug identified by Age of Noob where you can lay down foundations for buildings to “connect” different towns to hit a higher golden age. While I don’t think the building foundations count towards golden age, your enemies can not see them, so they can’t be destroyed.
While this seems like a bug, the Abbasid have dropped to the worst civ in terms of win % that I do not think this is necessarily on the top priority list.