About the water balance

Age of Empires II: DE II - Discussion
1

With the proposed water rework apparently already being decided this poll might be a bit later, but I thought it would be good to know anyway.

First a question about your current view on the water system as is:

  • I like the current water system
  • I feel neutral about the current water system
  • I dislike the current water system
0 voters

few of us will have played with the rework. But from what you have seen, what is your opinion about the new system compared to the current system:

  • I prefer the current system
  • I feel neutral
  • I prefer the rework
0 voters

Lastly, what would you like to see changed about the current water system:

  • nothing
  • changes to ship balance (eg buffs to galleys, nerfs to fireship, etc etc)
  • add additional units (eg Hulks, Boarding ships, …)
  • add more buildings (eg split the dock, add fortifications on water, sea mines, …)
  • add different terrain (shallows that slow boats, hill bonus equivalents, currents, …)
  • change how existing techs affect ships (heated shot, blacksmith upgrades for fire ships, chemistry requirement for fast fire etc etc)
  • other (leave a comment)
0 voters
2

Introducing a melee ship not only is more historical, but also means civs that rely on melee units will have a better chance at sea. Instead of having a direct correlation between archers and ships (on top of defences as well), which made bracer a ridiculously important tech.

I also appreciate giving american civs and cumans a new catapult galleon, to replace the cannon galleon they didn’t have.

4 Likes
3

this could be achieved by a balance change. eg fire galleys are affected by melee upgrades, or ships in general are affected by infantry armor upgrades.

no need to include a clunky ugly ship for that.

this is probably the part about the rework i like best. afaik cumans aren’t getting it. considering it’s only for the the american civs, it shouldn’t look this european. in general i am in favour of american civs getting a siege ship

4

They are getting it, actually.

2 Likes
5

If Magyars can have CG why cant Cumans?

6

Because the Cumans vanished by the time gunpowder was introduced to Europe, while the Magyars used it quite readily.

1 Like
7

Then why does celts vikings have it?Cumans assimilated to hungary and other nearby peoples so this argument makes no sense.

8

Because the Scottish and Irish existed alongside gunpowder, same with the Scandinavians, descendants of the Vikings.

2 Likes
9

Cuman descendants completely disappeared from the world by that time?

Goths have guns and survived till the 17th century but they have dromons,how does your logic apply there?

10

They ceased to be a distinct, independent people long before gunpowder was introduced, which is why they lack all gunpowder options.

They have Dromons because they were associated with the Byzantine world.

1 Like
11

Emperor Alexios I Komnenos had alliance with the Cumans. At the Battle of Levounion so cumans are better off with a dromon.

1 Like
12

Reduce the role of bonus damage in ship combat and/or improve the display of ship stats in the interface, to make ship interactions clearer.

In the dock interface, move all ships to page one and all upgrades to page two.

Make lou chuans less of a generalist, probably by removing the non-siege attack.

Remove the turtle ship’s rocket attack and restore it to what it was before the Koreans rework.

2 Likes
13

Current water battles suck and insanely boring once you played like 50 matches of team island (if you are not playing the landing role)

Hulk may stir up the meta, I support the rework because of that (and likely why you hated the rework), but I am not sure if Hulk alone is good enough for a more meaningful water fights

3 Likes
14

There can be a tech which allows docks to repair ships (uses resources) in their vicinity. It may help the defending player get back on water.

1 Like
15

Goths should have dromons. I actually thought they had it.

16

Actually, better idea for this: allow players to select how they want the dock interface arranged in the settings – either arranged the way I’m suggesting, or with the current layout. (Or even with a fully customisable layout.)

1 Like
17

From the new system, I like the possibility to add wood to the resources gained from trade cogs.

I dislike the idea of fishing ships firing arrows when garnisoned.

1 Like
18

My main issues with the rework are that

  1. the new counter triangle is illogical
  2. the dock should be split into 2 buildings

Illogical triangle

Why does the Heavily Armoured Hulk take more damage from arrows then the lightly armoured Fire Ship?

Why does armour stop fire? The Fire Ships even explode now which mostly helps them against Hulks.

Yes I know that currently Fire Ships counter Galleys but it wouldn’t be that strange to revert this.

Dock split

They now have to move some technologies to the University and have to move some UI (trade ratio selection) to the Trade Cog instead of being able t have all at the naval buildings. Also all civs with UUs that have an Elite upgrade can’t have Demo ships because there dock and castle UI have no space for that.

The other issues is that Trade Cogs will calculate their path based on the farthest away Dock, so building a Dock close to the enemy causes your Trade Cogs potentially going though hostile waters. Having a split into 2 buildings would completely eliminate this issue.

3 Likes
19

this is what I meant in my other post, when I said “many people want a water rework, but they mean very different things by that”

20

They are like half the way there to where I would want it to be.

Of course there are some other minor issues like that Vikings have Cannons, which makes no sense.

2 Likes