Answer this: Do people decide to drive a bus because “they’re nice” and “want to help people”? Or because they want money?
And do people make mods because they want others to enjoy their work, or because they want money?
oh ok then he quit his job again to return to Forgotten Empires?
Fun fact: some of them do this for fun or as a part time. Some others get income from ads, merchandise and donations .
For those who want to make a living from it, they need to carefully look for materials and plan and time the posting. Many even hire professional managers to do these. This is an even more competitive field as most do not really earn much. Do you really think they spend zero effort (just like releasing a free mod as an expensive DLC with no major improvements) and earn money?
Look, developing a hobby and making a living from it (which essentially makes it no longer a hobby anymore) are different. You are mixing them together. If you need money but cannot get it from the hobby then it means you cannot support that hobby just like you cannot buy a car.
I’d suggest you try a job or one other thing than modding and you’ll stop glorifying it as something different and noble.
1 Like
Comparing doing some custom campaigns with slavery is freaking disgusting man. Who is FORCING you to custom campaigns huh?
At this point it is more than obvious that you are either unemployed or so unhappy wirh ur job, that you hope to get paid enough with ur custom campaigns so you don’t have to work otherwise.
I don’t know in which country you are living and i especially don’t know in which fairy tale world you think you live but let me tell you sth:
Not everyone can live from their hobby. If i decide right now that i want to be a youtuber or twitch streamer there is like a 99% chance that i will never make a l7ving from it, no matter how much work i put into this.
If you think putting time into sth. Is enough to be successful/get enough money you are dead wrong. This world is about demand and supply. You can’t just take a gamble, because yes, this is a gamble and cry if you can’t live from that.
Even in normal jobs you often have to work for free or at least for close to nothing for a period of time until you get where you want.
There are 100 things you cn compare this with. Slavery isn’t one of them for sure.
If your work is really valuable, which is the important part…then things may work out like they did with filthy. But nobody in their right mind takes this gamble without a backup plan and if you do…don’t blame the system because there wasn’t even once said you are guaranteed to live from this
1 Like
Good idea, I tried that but only 1 sub in 4 months. About 8000+ downloads (so I guess 8000 players, one has been translated in Chinese without my permission (but np as long as they credit me) so I don’t know if I should count it) for my campaigns, still only 2 dollars of monetisation and I can’t even cash them because I need something like 20 dollars a month to even just cash them from the patreon.
Oh I tried, it didn’t go too well.
Thanks, my boss said I was disgusting as well when he fired me because I asked a free day.
Nothing but my passion so I guess that’s totally on me.
Yeah I heard about that… I don’t think it’s right, maybe not slavery but highly questionable nonetheless.
Well I’m not saying the “system” (Microsoft of whoever) is forced to agree with me obviously… Just trying to start s discussion but every time I get these replies so for now I’m fighting alone. I’ll fight nonetheless because I think I have a point.
You said influencers and I assume you know it is extremely difficult for 99.99% of people posting on social media to get even 100 subscribers not to mention earning a penny.
God yes I see it, it’s you not seeing it imo lol! I’m not even sure about my future, I see it very well ahah
Because of money I guess? Maybe there is some passionate bus driver but he still needs money to survive. That’s my point indeed.
I try one last time:
If some one decides to drive a bus for free, either he already has enough money, or he has other sources of income.
And what if he can’t decide? I guess he didn’t try hard enough so he should continue to drive buses for free? Or just keep searching for something else (like I’m doing but not working, can’t go too personal) but what in the meanwhile? He’s still driving a bus and doing a service right? Wouldn’t make sense to pay him?
Bus driver applied to a bus company and got hired so he gets paid.
If you want to get paid for making game stuff you have the following options
- Donations, which you already said didn’t work
- Apply to a gaming company. Maybe make some more scenarios and you yourself can apply to FE
- Start your own gaming project. Learn Unity, watch the MIT game Design course, follow samyam at youtube and start your journey
Note that I’m of the idea that people who upload mods or scenarios shouldn’t be paid.
Should I charge you answering all your editor questions? That would be ridiculous. I did it because I like to help other people do scenario stuff and doing so, I learn more scenario stuff
If someone is unsure about how to make a living, he does NOT “decide” to drive a bus for free. That is not even an option. It is only an option for those who has enough money.
Or let’s be more specific: how do you think MS should pay you for your modding if you don’t have other sources of income?
Should they give you a steady salary during this period for whatever you are doing?
That’s what social welfare system does.
If you really think your skills on modding is the only means for you to make a living, you should either start trying to make indie games (and sell them) or get into a gaming company.
Well i can’t talk about your boss, because i don’t know about specifics. Firing sb. for just wanting a day off is crazy for sure…but maybe that’s not the whole story.
Would you say your situation is similiar to people in qatar for example, being forced to build stadions under conditions were many had to die? I hope we can agree that this comparison is way off.
In my opinion there are only 2 ways you can hope to make a living from this. Obviously you need for both ways that your scenarios are very popular:
-
Try to negotiate with microsoft that they hire you
-
Make a Donation Goal. If this doesn’t work say that you will only make more campaigns, if people fullfill this goal (you could do amount x for 1 scenario for example).
If this still doesn’t work accept that you can’t live from this and focus your time on sth. else or at least reduce the time for this.
Even streamers/youtubers like nili and Jordan had to quit. They didn’t blame the system either
Worlds edge is a studio that’s owned by MS created for the purpose of working on age franchise stuff.
Worlds edge, FE, and a few other studios work on the age franchise.
Yes, bus drivers do said job because they want money. Mods are passion projects (most of the time). That’s the difference. One is work, the other is a hobby.
By that count I should get paid for playing video games. Or building stuff around the house. Or looking after my kids.
Nah, this is the point about hobbies. Is it wrong to ask for contributions? Eh, I’d say not. But legally it gets messy very quickly because a) you don’t own the code and b) lawyers gonna lawyer. But plenty of people do stuff with a Patreon and whatnot - so long as it’s 100% their own work. That can’t be the case here, because the code is owned by MS.
Also, enough with the politics my dude. It’s kinda obvious to everyone that nomatter where they sit on the political spectrum, trying to gotcha people about “Marxism” while calling them / others “sjws” means you’re just trying to get a reaction from folks.
1 Like
It’s more like I’m calling out their hypocrisy… If there’s something which is Marxism is the time/work relationship, not all today’s ideological crap.
I think you can always find someone who’s having a worse day than you, that shouldn’t make you ignored I supposed, specially if you have the concrete possibility to do something about it with minimum effort, like idk trying to discuss his perspective which we are doing at least I guess.
I guess 1 is the most likely thing at this point even if I wanted to avoid it exactly because of V&V which I think it was not a good move. I think if modders were able to make some money while remaining independent it would have been better for players too but probably in the future I will have no choice, I think that will be inconvenient for everyone once they realise (except for me at least economically speaking if this ever happens).
As for 2 I don’t like that method personally, it feels like blackmailing or begging which I dislike doing. I would have liked to go the patreon route but 8000 downloads Vs 1 sub makes you realise why nothing in the world can be free or let to people’s generosity lol. I’m also not so arrogant to think that people would be desperate for some more campaigns of mine. What I did is always just “ask” but it’s naive admittedly.
Yeah I know I’m making myself bad ad but I’m never been interested in anything other than my passion. I ask money just because I’m in need or I really wouldn’t cause I hate doing it like any dignified person.
Oh please no I’m already in negative ahah I think we’re comparing two different things anyway. I don’t think replying to a question is the same amount of effort as to #### # ##### campaign. Thank you anyway for the answers and since you, while disagreeing, at least were not aggressive during this conversation.
@SamePorpoise303, evidently you have some fairly serious problems – both financial and psychological – but I think it’s really not within this forum’s power to help with them. Certainly trolling people with posts about slavery and SJWs is not going to help. For some people, a forum could be a useful place to vent their frustrations, but from what I’ve seen that is not working in your case. Also, if you keep making these kinds of posts, I think there’s a genuine risk of you being banned.
Obviously I don’t know much about you or your situation – but I hope it’s not overstepping to suggest that you should try to get help elsewhere.
To keep this post at least somewhat on-topic:
This is the correct answer. He will have been in a good position to negotiate payment that he considers satisfactory. We don’t have the information to make a judgement about that, and our judgements would be irrelevant anyway.
4 Likes
I’m glad to see my post brought on such a passionate debate about what’s work or not, but my point was:
As somebody mentioned it, modding is no more than a noble hobby. But when someone use the work you made on your free time, sell it, and make money with it, this is oblviously not fair, right? That was all the point of my question.
Beside, MS could do it, precisely because they’ve got the right to do it. I think it is at least a bit important to know if MS is scamming their own community.
As i learned it here, and thank you for that, i know that’s not the case. I didn’t want to know how much Filthy get paid, or what kind of agreement he has with his employer, that’s a private matter for sure.
I think it’s the end of this debate. Please be respectful to SamePorpoise303, even if he’s a bit harsh his point was interesting.
Thank you all, and sorry for my wobbly english.
Have a good day
Technically it happens already. The official game lives also on fan mods since the beginning because it helps Microsoft to increase fidelity and keep the game fresh for the community without costs.
They acknowledge it themselves, specially in the last patch notes, writing “once philtydelphia was only one of you, modders keep this game alive with their passion”. It’s that mechanism that works very well in the entertainment industry: dream big and work hard, one day you might become a star like the one you admire but for now work for free and thanks for your passion. Only 1 out of 1000 can do it but you can be the one!
On second stance, most YouTubers making money out of recording their playing or twitchers making money just playing sometimes use primarily custom content created for free by modders as content for their channels (Ornlu is probably the most famous example). They arguably have fun and can monetise out of it and the best I can say is thanks because they promoted modders I guess (still no money for the people who created the actual content with which they’re making profit).
I know this useless but one more time:
Modding is a hobby. Most people simply do it for fun.
By your logic soccer is more of a slavery because millions play it for free and more people watch them play for free. Only 1 out of 1000000 can become a soccer star.
Maybe most of them play soccer for fun?
Unfriendly reminder: “most” youtubers do NOT make money. Those who can make money isnlike 1 out of 10000 and those who can make a living from it 1 out of 1000000 or less.
If you envy them you can try doing that yourself and see if you can make a living by simply sitting there and playing games other people made for you. I promise soon you’ll be comparing it to modern slavery too.
Modding fortunately is a far less crowded and competitive field. At least it is easier to become visible in the community. But of course it is more difficult to earn a lot from it but this is how modern economy works.
1 Like