Adjourned Balance Suggestions for Easter, or whenever it'll be

Ok so, it was for a long time that I wanted to do another post with my suggestions for the balance, especially since we may expect a balance patch around Easter. But I waited until HC4, and thankfully, since if I haven’t see it, I may had included some unnecessary changes.

For the most, are minor buffs or adjustments (with the exception for the 2 new civs), but still important in my opinion. Also this time I made the list shorter, including not all the ideas worh of considering, but all the necessary changes. Still, there are some must, and some general suggestions for the direction that the civ should take, so take the latter as not rigid as the first.

To conclude, I think that the balance is in its better spot that it has ever been, but still, I think that we can di better.


  • Receive the second archer armor.


  • Receive free town patrol.
  • Receive partian tactics.


  • Flemish revolution UT changed in vills having a key to upgrade them to FM.
  • FR transform all archers/xbows into HC.
  • Stables cost 50% less.
  • Light cavalry upgrades available in feudal age.


  • Stronghold UT now affects TCs too.


  • CKN cost 40g instead of 35g.


  • Eco buildings (drop off points, markets, BS, uni and monastery) gives +5 pop.
  • Lose squires.
  • Cumans mercenaries UT now allows your allies to train elite kipchaks at the cost of 60w and 65g (instead of 35g) in their castles.


  • Their TB now also give +1 LoS on all buildings.


New bonus:

  • All other TC techs (not the age ups) are researched instantly (they aren’t free) like their loom.


  • Farms are built 100% faster and farm eco upgrades are researched 100% faster.
  • Kamayuks get +2 bonus damage vs EW (this is more than a fix than a buff, along with the condos, it’s the only infantry unit that lack a bonus damage vs eagles, and coincidentally the 2 units belong to the same DLC, so they were most likely "forgotten, pun not intended…).


  • Shatagni cost is reduced to 300f and 250g. (all HC UTs should be cheaper, to incourage the use of the unit)
  • EA receive +1 base range.


  • Get Siege Engineers (affected by 33% cheaper uni).
  • Condos get +2 bonus damage vs EW.


  • Samurai cost 25g instead 30g.


  • Receive only the first infantry armor tech for free.


  • Nomads instantly unlock the 200 pop (huns style) and it’s researched in 10 seconds.


  • Receive squires.
  • Faster researching techs buffed from 30% to 33%.
  • Arquebus cost reduced to 400f and 400g.


  • Zelotry cost reduced to 450f and 400g (from 500f and 450g).
  • Mamelukes cost 10g less (from 85 to 75).
  • Madrasah makes monasteries works 100% faster (basically halving the times).


  • Donjons gives also 5 pop.
  • Start with +100 stone
  • Trasport ships anti-ships armor reduced at 4, but get +6 LoS.
  • Receive redemption and block printing.
  • If necessary, the less bonus damage bonus is restricted to stable units only.


  • Ortodoxy buffed from +3/3 armor to +6/6 armor and add +6 special armor vs scouts attack bonus (scouts deals half damage after that).


  • Trash line upgrades don’t cost gold.
    so basically pike (90g), ES (130g), LC (50g), halb (600g) and hussars (600g). IS too (450g) if you are allied with viets.
  • Monasteries cost just 75w.
  • Free fervor or sanctity.


  • The +1PA for the scout line starts in feudal age.
  • Artillery UT stone cost (450s) transformed in a wood cost (500w).


  • Paper money gives back 1:1 ratio of gold, so either cost 800f/w and gives back 800g, or cost 500f/w and gives back 500g.

As always, those are just my opinions, it’s not like I pretend that I know the holy truth or something like that…

Fell free to comment and especially contradict me, otherwise a discussion where everyone agrees is boring… :joy:


i believe giving them parth is a waste.

i think this might be too strong.

no limit?

this is interesting.

maybe just the farm upgrades, all of them could be quite broken.

im fine with these but think the range increase won’t do that much.

fine with this.

i really don’t think this is neccesary, its not like turks are dominating.


I admit that this one is a bit more for historical reasons… but it wouldn’t make them broken so…

Really? In the end is 45s of researching it, for +15HP and 2 attack. BL is 50s and 20HP.

No, but more than the double the gold cost.

Ops, forgot to specify… I’ll correct it.

I was thinking of giving even another +1 for the elite, but it’s better to proceed with baby steps, and at least it would make them unique as CA.

No but it kinda bother me, all military bonuses (except more LoS) start in the feudal age.

1 Like

just say scale mail (like the eth free pike)

yeah i wonder how viable it actually makes their CA without BL… they will certainly eat spears faster but not sure if it will be only for really edge case scenarios

i guess this can make quite a difference to both the arambai and the e skirm, but i dont think its enough vs archer civs in imperial age… but at least helps them in castle age a lot more. (1 dmg instead of 2 on skirms and 4 instead of 5 on arambai?)

the 2 together might be too much. maybe one or the other for certain maps like acropolis?

i will be sad to see this go. but i guess its worth the trade

would allies even train them at that cost? even a magyar or turk?

yeah i guess this is a weird one, because now EA wont auto matically move in front of arbs or HC?

yeah im wondering if this is enough? i guess the 33% is for rounding off, but i wonder if squires is enough to carry them to imperial age…?

i guess with their terrible win rates this makes sense with such a big situational buff? and i can see how it works historically… but would it help vs cav/raw damage civs? teutons will still eat them solid…

im assuming this is to encourage turtling into 1st crusade(which teutons absolutely hard counter), as you can convert the siege that tries to break in? as well as to encourage their archers? but imo their eco isnt good enough to justify archers even if you can more easily convert opposing mangos? unlike say aztecs with their boss eco to support their not amazing xbows?

would really like to see either the trash or the monastery one but not both i think might be too strong. i think i prefer the monk stuff because it means more micro and more identity…

yeah gosh i cant believe it costs so much stone… its insane

1 Like

i know its a weird one, but i would still like to see persians get some kind of buff for their LS…to both counter mixed trash and/or eagles…

as in either a discount on LS from imperial, or give them 2HS…

there’s simply too much micro involved to counter siege ram/huskarl/champskarl + halbs, . and the match up v mayan eagles is too lopsided.

honestly at this point i don’t see any reason they can’t be given at least 2hs

1 Like

Parthian tactics for Byz?! 11, it is like giving Roman Legions to east Asia and doesn’t make any sense.

Big NO !

No. Just give them better build time for their 2nd TC and reduce wood cost for Kipchaks from 60 to 50, and their 2nd UT need a big change but not like you said.

No. Goths don’t need any buff.

Better get the old Koreans back with their trush identity with 50% faster build for towers, castles, walls and gates with +5 or +10% hp.

Portoguese don’t need any buff.

Only this will be enough, and Madrasah need another change.

Just reduce their Donjons cost and they will be more than fine.



debatable, they don’t see much pro play.

We saw them in HC4 with 100:% winrate and they are on top 10 winrate civs in the ladder

1 Like

It actually totally makes sense. Historically the Byzantine would learn from nomadic horsemen, and they had cataphract archers. Ensemble Studio even knew this since in the AoK manual they mentioned the Byzantine in the history section of the heavy cavalry archer.

Still worse than what Aztecs get

On which world Byz is a CA civ!!!

No it is not, this is broken. Orthodox need just something else, mayhe give Boyars 15% discount and 30% conversion resistance

they were played ONCE in the entire tournament. and if ladder winrates were to be catered too we have to buff chinese.

Yeah and pros banned them many times too! Everyone know how Goths are a broken sick civ from AOK and until now devs can’t deal with them and can’t balance them

1 Like

by many times you mean twice.

We don’t need to give new bonuses to all the civs.

Koreans don’t need free armor.
Cumans don’t need that eco bonus.
Sicilians don’t need starting stone. etc.

This would make Slav Monk+Trebuchet totally unkillable, they would be unstoppable on Arena.

1 Like

Goths actually is the most weird civ in aoe, this is the aok/aoc devs fault

I don’t see the problem with a civ having parthian tactics but no bloodliness. AoC players survived Japanese CA just fine. And let’s be real, people say that civs who only lack supplies have bad champs, they won’t ever dare touch no bloodlines CA no matter what. And that’s why I’m fine if it doesn’t happen too.

It’s a monk unique tech, you would need much more than that to make it broken 11

Must have been for mindgames. And let’s be real how do you throw a game against Goths when you’re Franks and only need to spam throwing axement to win against Goths 11

That’s a better reason to oppose this buff, but even so I wonder if it would be worth it. After all the Italian and Byzantine can d monk+trebs so much faster, and without age up bonuses + the need to get a tech = your opponent has time to get heresy and deny you.

And Franks lost in HC4 vs Goths LOL 11

1 Like

Just bring back the old Koreans:

Villagers +3 LOS
Stone Miner work 20% faster
Tower upgrades free
Fortifications are built 33% faster
Mangonel-line +1 range


Yes the old Koreans!