I don’t like this solution. It just feels dumb to have a magic aura where you can’t build buildings (except when blocked by other buildings). I didn’t like it in AoE 3, and I don’t like it here. There are other ways to fix this:
Obviously fix the cart speed getting 2.25x speed.
Make the mongol TC have way less defenses in cart mode and when setting up.
Option 1:
Make the mongol TC have way less defenses even after it’s been setup, until it’s been fortified (perhaps an ability that mongol player needs to spend resources on).
Option 2:
Make the mongol TC automatically have more defenses after it’s been setup, but only after a good 30 seconds.
Basically, the TC will be super vulnerable during it’s early stage against villagers with torches, but once it’s established, it will be hard to bum rush it. This should make sense, in that you can get a couple of tents up fast to run your base of operations, but after it’s been setup, it takes a while to fortify.
I think it will be enough with them fixing the speed bug.
If you have units near his wagon you can block the tc from going up so u can just chase it with the scout once the speed bug gets sorted.
If it doesn’t solve it then they can just move the speed upgrade to age2.
Yes, moving the upgrade to feudal will also be a solution. There are multiple solutions that do not require you to rely on magical no build zones, please use those instead of such an anti-immersive solution.
A other solution would be to put a limited number of working spot for villager, to pack and unpack town center of the mongol, forcing a 15 second of build time, allowing enemy town center to snipe the mongol villager, that are seting their town center too close.
Also, we need to make the buildings attack the units and ignore enemy buildings. XD
Remove the tech, instead have the buildings increase and scale their movement speed with each age.
This removes the potential speed bonus in dark or early feudal occurring, but also scales the repositioning ability of the mongols throughout the game well into late game.
I personally think the movement needs to be as fast as possible at all times, being able to move you buildings is meant to be a buff to the mongols - but the high APM required and difficulty in decision of when and where make this less of a feature of the civ and more of a chore or at worst, a deficit. I still would like to see a way to move multiple buildings at once and have them all placed as close to each other as possible like farms are down, so you can move an entire town with little 3 clicks (1st to select all buildings, 2nd to push T, and 3rd to hold down shift and click once to perform a mass move)… anything else is simply making a “feature” something thats too difficult and annoying to perform
I don’t see why it needs to be as fast as possible. The fastest possible movement is a teleport, and I don’t want a teleporting building in my medieval strategy game. I also don’t want a building that moves faster than horse archers either.
Unless, I am not understanding your meaning (ie, fast as possible equal less buttons required).I do agree that they need to work on making these group maneuvers easier to perform.
By as fast as possible, I mean as fast as can be reasonably implemented based on game balance. Haha teleporting is obviously a bit much! (Although that has been explored in AoM, interestingly enough!)
I think having it as fast or faster than a horse is important for a few reasons:
a) moving out of the way is literally the only ‘defense’ a mongol player has in the late game, there are no walls, fortifications. Raiding a mongol player late game is therefore very easy and late-game light cav raids are also very strong and cripple economies. Therefore moving your base needs to be quick to both perform and to execute and it needs to be effective.
b) the time spent moving is effectively idle time, not only for your vills (which still move slowly and need to catch up to the base) but also for production buildings which are idle. The opportunity cost of moving your base is very high, both in APM and in your production of units and gathering resrouces. When you realise this the ‘feature’ of moving your base actually feels less appetising.
To move a building, it currently must not have anything in its queue - you need to manually cancel the queue and then move, (instead of just logically pausing production and restarting it whilst moving: god knows why that wasn’t implemented)
If its not a powerful mechanic, that is quick and fast and easy to do, it risks simply being a gimmick for civ variation, rather than anything that is actually useful for you to do because of its strategic importance.
It needs to feel powerful / easy/ and worth it to move your buildings around.
I think building movement needs significant buffs rather than nerfs. Its important to see the difference between what this mechanic is trying to be vs the cheese dark age strat that its currently breaking.
I think this is still handily dealt with my scaling the movement speed of the buildings with current age.
There is one big problem with that, and that is the map just isn’t big enough for a proper nomad playstyle. The lack of logistics means that any random civ can plop down a random building anywhere on the map almost as quickly as the mongols. If the map was absolutely enormous, and mongols had the best supply chain network, then you can build that into a strategic threat. But as is, it’s gimmicky, and I don’t see how it can’t be gimmicky.
If people are dead set on it working the way it does now, instead of rethinking the mechanic, moving it to feudal or making it more expensive will likely be the best idea. You could also add more buffs to moving if you really need it to with new technologies or just make it a part of the aging bonuses.
whilst your kind of right here, i have found it very useful to move villagers and eco and military production buildings around the map in less scouted places to get some reprieve, and you’ve no doubt heard of how rams can be rather ineffective against mongol buildings if the player has the apm to move out the way and still has an army in play.
Its still a useful ability, but borderlines gimmickyness - I suppose map size definitely has a role to play here.
Yeah buddy, I hear you. I do want it nerfed, just for reasons that would make intuitive in game sense for the player that’s not “magic aura forbids it”.
Some people just have bad luck I’ve done over 20 games (as Mongols) and only encountered another Mongol player one time. Maybe it knows I tend to play Mongols and doesn’t match me against others that do?
Just to show there are other possibilities (the bugged tech needs to be fixed nonetheless):
Move the speed tech to feudal age.
Introduce snare for mongol carriages, meaning they get slowed down significantly when under attack.
Remove burning protection for all TCs and instead add a tech for feudal in the TC that adds it back. Burning buildings should be unable to pack/unpack.
So, i just played against my first Mongol TC rush.
You know what i did?
I had my scout attack his TC cart so it was blocked. I build another Scout attacking his Khan.
Took him 5 Minutes to get his TC up. 5 Minutes in which he did not build Vills. He got it up eventually, i was feudal. Spearman Archers, 15 Vills ahead.
Almost torched his TC completly down rather quickly, but he repaired. If i play it even more safe there, i am way ahead in vills. Loss in Vills only cause i chased him.
Yes, the TC speed nerf will be good, which is why it’s the top bullet point. FYI, the topic is around a better nerf than the one proposed by Relic’s no TC zone, not about if this strategy is beatable or not. Clearly, relic thinks it’s a problem, it has issues with making any sense whatsoever (tell me why I want a rocket cart in my medieval strategy game plz), and a lot of players don’t like playing against it. That in itself is grounds for a change.
A lot of people just like moving the speed to feudal, which is probably fine.
