Witty generic unit “good vs all” comment
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The Chinaco is designed based on Semi-Lancers like the Sowar or Naginata with a multiplier vs all infantry and a negative against Heavy Infantry BUT it also performs well vs Heavy Cavaly due to the 1,25x multi which already makes it a really solid unit being able to hold it’s ground while turning Skirms into toast really fast. Where the real problem starts tho is the Caballero card which is generally unbalanced when used for Semi-Lancers. The reason it that all upgrade cards for anti-infantry multipliers on Sowar, Nagi etc. also reduce the Heavy infantry multiplier even more so that the respective unit deals 1x vs HI as it does without the card but Caballeros doesn’t so it not only increases dmg vs skirms and other infantry by 66% but also the damage vs Heavy Infantry which makes many trades that would be less favourable for a Hussar or uncarded Chinaco(since they perform worse vs HI without the card) into a trade that can often be favourable for Chinacos. And even beyond that Caballeros also ads 1 range to melee attacks allowing them to get the first swing off vs other melee(cavalry) units and thus trading better. Now you can ignore the charged ability if you want since it rarely sees use in 1v1 but be assured that it makes them even more OP when playing Treaty/Team with huge unit masses. And as already stated Chinacos with Caballeros are basically unbeatable for something like China and Russia unless there’s a lucky Manchu pop.
Addition 1: The extra range also means that Chinacos can more easily Reach Artillery or other backline units and that they can reach and snare goons faster than a hussar could(and in some cases lthey can just outright obliterate 1pop gonn masses with the charged attack).
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dmg vs Musks is 25 base x1 without and x1,66 with card so 41,5 if carded while having 10% less HP so uncarded it’s honestly just a worse Huss but one card makes all the difference
In context I was referring to fully upgraded Chinacos. The anti infantry card is assumed.
Yeah when carded it’s just absurd with both cards and CavCombat
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If some UU like carded Charros existed in AOE 2 it would be quite nerfed the next patch, the closest we had here was the Georgian Monaspa 11
So I just played a 3v3 and I made nothing but Chinacos, slowly got the eco, Cards and upgrades and ended up having the highest score of the team lol
I dont want to get into this topic like the 1553th time on this forum,
but these logic you guy post the 1552th do not make it own sense.
you will come up with some funny conclusion with same 2 video with full upgrade “british grenadier vs all grenadier each civ”.
it is the Coustillier in aoe2
however it is counter productive to bring up aoe2 trying to reinforce you option, like
French Palatine best all Palatine in game, so what should we do? that called civ bonuses for a reason, you should balance it whole round with entire civ in your head
Ehm, what exactly is your problem here? He asked for video evidence
and as you can see in those 2 videos: fully carded chinacos easily beat most other fully carded heavy cav with equal ressources → they are op
Its not some “funny conclusion”, its plain and boring reality
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not me trying to related to hamletlopez reply.
but the intent of thise two video is simply GIGO.
- most. so are you going to nerf those ones who can best chinacos? clearly under this logic those are more op than the op here, lets call them op-pro-max
- as i said, we can do the same video on British Grenadier, or skrim version or goon version. my point is - see my other reply above - it is to balance the civ as a whole but not on a single unit.
Chinacos are not intended as the heavy cav to rule them all, so your british grenadier comparison is flawed. Also grenadiers are niche and a ballance concern of their own - some even argue for complete redesigns of the unitclass… heavy cav is like one of the BIG tags in this game, so obviously they matter more
Btw humbaraci are a great example for op grenadiers that get discussed regulary here
Most of them are french native cav units… so
- its well known, that french native play is op… so yes french native heavy cav is op
- natives are map dependent, have buildlimit and only a tiny minority of them is heavy cav, chinacos are allways available
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Test 25 huss vs 25 chinacos no upgrades.
you dont get the logic do you?
there are always a unit better than it comparable unit in its own type, rather or not it is Mex Chinacos, Port Cassador, Germany Wargon.
balancing is the job to be done all round or we should have only 1 civ in game.
beside, even if we consider Mex have exact more and stong card for chinacos. please remember you can put same number of cards in eco and light cav upgrade to obligate them. why insist to contest a unit when the goal is win the game as a whole
Bro, point is chinacos win easily. Just look at the tests, they trade too cost efficient. Also civs like germany have more cards for their cav and will still loose… and other civs might include a variety of upgrades for a well rounded army, but mexico can simply monocomp and use all those cardslots for chinacos (btw the majority of statbuffs for chinacos is caused by 3 cards… i think you will have plenty of space to put them in your deck. All other cards in the video effect other mexican units aswell, such as liberation march or advanced arsenal. Cardinvestment is really no issue at all here). Chinacos are even cost efficient against some goons and some musks aka they are breaking the countersystem. You truely dont get it.
Furthermore mexico has a lot of flexibility, other civs lack that. Some civs only have “my heavy cav is great” as their sole identity and they get absolutely destroyed by chinacos. So mexican heavy cav is diminishing uniqueness of other civs
In your previous posts you fielded a number of arguments that all fell flat on their nose, maybe dont talk about flawed logic my friend… maybe reconsider your position on chinacos, maybe not, idc anymore
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Precisely. We should all be playing oTTmains.
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The issue gets worse due to Mexico doing everything well:
- 85 pop economy superior to 99 ones
- Trade card for treaty
- Salteadors
- Soldados with area damage. Range units with AoE attacks shouldnt be a thing, specially a musketeer. We suffered Giant Grenadiers in the past too.
Civs with less villagers should have a bit lesser max cap popwise, specially the ones with grant natives
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maybe you should play and push mex win rate over 55% in rank as it is so easily monocomp and win.
tbh, idc, you arguments fell flat in the face of statistics. and numbers are objective.
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tbh, yes, i do think there is design space to make a civ with less than 200 max pop
I wouldn’t recommend that across the board. The Dutch have 140pop and it isn’t an issue because you have a weaker than standard eco.
I think France and Japan are pretty okay too.
Reducing Mexico’s max pop wouldn’t be my first choice. It would impact mid-late game in 1v1 too much as sometimes they reach full pop.
That change would became their eco better due to having less pressure to keep full pop. Meanwhile they would keep having a better ratio than other civs since the pop limit wouldn be as lower as lower is the villagers limit.