Yes, those civs should be mechanically different from the current Asian civs. Maybe the Central Asian civs could work similar to the Middle Eastern ones. This of course would depend on what their unique mechanics will be. There are so many things that could be done.
For example, I would like to see what a hypothetical Omani would be like, since they could probably share many mechanics with the African civs.
There’s also the case of a hypothetical Morocco, and whether it should work as an African civ, an European one (Ottoman-like, as in the Historical battles) or part of these new Islamic civs.
I don’t know, I think this game still has many great ideas to potentially bring to life.
I think Asia can perfectly have more civs than 8. After all, it has always been the core of the Human civilization. And even if this game is set during the rise of the European hegemony, Asia still had extremely impressive kingdoms and empires during this period.
Vietnam was colonized by France during, what, the 1880s?
I believe it’d be highly insulting to build the entire civilization around being a colony when that’s something that’s way at the end the period the game covers.
Yes, those civs should be mechanically different from the current Asian civs. Maybe the Central Asian civs could work similar to the Middle Eastern ones. This of course would depend on what their unique mechanics will be. There are so many things that could be done.
When I was working in Wars of Liberty we just threw all the Central Asian civs in the same mechanical “culture” as the islamic civs because, at the end of the day, they are also heavily influenced by islam (or more accurately, by the Persianate).
Could not agree more with this. Vietnam deserves to be a civ portraying their own history, like the “Southward expansion” or the civil wars. Not their subjugation, which actually took place after the timeframe of aoe3. It feels so wrong.
I think they could share many if not most of the mechanics, but still the Central Asians could have some unique elements showcasing their more nomadic lifestyle compared to the West Asian/“Islamic” civs.
Yes, the most likely thing is that they will go for Burmese, Siamese and if possible, Vietnamese… then another Asian dlc would be Persians, Omanis and Afghans and in Central Asia, Tatars and Uzbeks…
I guess chronologically and cultural-wise it’s not exactly a neat fit, but which other notable French colonial possessions (discounting portions of the United States) have 20 or more provinces to use as Federal States? Haiti has a mere 10 departments, and I’m not exactly sure if the 40-odd arrondisements fit. Algeria did not break 15 such subdivisions until the 1970s. Canada has way too few. Syria has a mere 14. It’s literally just Vietnam.
So if we get one Federal civ to echo each of the original eight civs, we’re gonna have to fudge some things a bit. Like making a Vietnamese civ that shows in some way how France was the European country with the most influence, even if as a whole it’s still representing the independent period of the Nguyen Dynasty. The paradigm would continue with, i guess, a Greeks civ that echos Russians, an Arabs civ that echoes Ottomans (did you think Azap/Falc was annoying? Get ready for National Guard Urban Azaps, since historically Arabs made up a HUGE portion of that soldier type), a Colombians or Argentines civ that echoes Germans (I lean towards Colombians), an Indonesians civ that echoes Dutch, and a Brazilians civ that acts like Portugal.
Not like the devs have exactly done the best job of representing civs in the past (coughs in Lakota), so I guess this might fly–as long as like 95% of the civ is super Vietnamese. When I mean it’s the French Federal civ, I’m mostly talking the National Guard units mirroring France’s (I.E. NG Skirmisher and an NG elephant vs. cuirassier), the ability for strong native play (like all the Federal civs are capable of), and a couple of French cards like Tirailleurs being available. Plus a selection of Consulate armies from the Harbor, the ability to pop 5-plus Forts, a few Immigrant cards, and access to a Capitol building of some sort.
They’d still have Asian Villagers, Vietnamese architecture sets, Castles, and I guess the ability to send Consulate Rickshaws at some point. Just no Wonders.
As much as I would like the Vietnamese (though along with Siam), I don’t know if I’m fully behind them having Federal States. Forgetting about the intricacies of how real nations functioned ('cos literally all civs would be inaccurate), the Fed State system for post-revolutionary North/central/South American civs works better as 1) it marks them out regionally with their own unique age-up 2) it ties in better with their theme - you’re essentially building up the fledgling civ by adding new states to their territory.
I cannot see any other way than the ‘standard’ Wonder age-up like the rest of the Asian civs. With that in mind that whole system could be refreshed but that’s another topic!
Yeah I am of the same opinion, it sounds like trying to fit a square peg down a round hole. There’s no need to have 8 Federal civs, let alone 8 federal civs that mirror the vanilla 8.
I just like the idea of having the symmetry–the OG eight civs (kinda) kicked off the colonial and exploration ages of human history (thus far), and having eight Federal civs echoing the OG eight kind of creates nice book ends for the age of post-colonial nation states and globalism moving into the 20th Century.
how would you even realistically find 8 federal civs? the only factions that actually would match (20 states) would be Argentina and Brazil. what story would you even tell at a certain point? and do we really honestly want half a dosen spanish speaking nations in the game?
Jokes aside. Even though more post-colonial civs wouldn’t be my first option for a new DLC (for the Americas I’d prefer more native civs to be honest), I would undoubtedly buy it and play with those new civs. Even tough I would have never consider adding Mexico to the game, it is now one of my most played civs. If they make a fun Brazilian or Argentine civ, I would welcome it.
But I still think Asia is the continent in more dire need of civs
Unfortunately, not all colonial civilizations have enough Provinces/States to be a civilization, a potential solution would be to imitate how they work in the WOL mod, it is not the best solution, but it is better than nothing.
PS: I wish the developers would try to maintain a uniform distribution of civilizations, in my opinion I think Asia, Africa and South America are too depopulated.
And that’s why I had to hedge a bit on which nations get which Federal civ. It’s dubious to have Colombians OR Argentines be the German federal, but that only has one additional Spanish speaking civ,
These were the main long-lasting major powers in East Asia that I can think of. Note that the former three are isolationist while the latter four are SEA states. This distinction is useful when devising unique mechanisms for a group of civs (especially if China and Japan are to be reworked).
As for the Persian and Indian civs, I would recommend grouping them along with the Ottomans into a Gunpowder Empire DLC. Specifically, you can have the following:
Ottoman
Persian (Safavid → Qajar)
Mughal
Egyptians (Mamluk → Khedivate)
Afghans (Durrani → Emirate)
Maratha (Confederacy)
Notice that the latter three can be considered “break-off” states from the former three, so you can implement the civs 4-6 as elaborate revolutions of 1-3 or have them as fully independent civs.
Here are the federal countries (practically all the federations are as civs in the game except Argentina, Brazil, Gran Colombia and Switzerland) (Canada and Australia are very late and are better as revolutions)…
And Johor Sultanate…
In 1511, Malacca fell to the Portuguese and Sultan Mahmud Shah was forced to flee Malacca. The sultan made several attempts to retake the capital but his efforts were fruitless. The Portuguese retaliated and forced the sultan to flee to Pahang. Later, the sultan sailed to Bintan and established a new capital there.[citation needed] With a base established, the sultan rallied the disarrayed Malay forces and organised several attacks and blockades against the Portuguese position.
With the fall of Portuguese Malacca in 1641 and the decline of Aceh due to the growing power of the Dutch, Johor started to re-establish itself as a power along the Straits of Malacca during the reign of Sultan Abdul Jalil Shah III (1623–1677).
In the 17th century with Malacca ceasing to be an important port, Johor became the dominant regional power. The policy of the Dutch in Malacca drove traders to Riau, a port controlled by Johor. The trade there far surpassed that of Malacca. The VOC was unhappy with that but continued to maintain the alliance because the stability of Johor was important to trade in the region.
The Sultan provided all the facility required by the traders. Under the patronage of the Johor elites, traders were protected and prospered.[11] With a wide range of goods available and favourable prices, Riau boomed. Ships from various places such as Cambodia, Siam, Vietnam and all over the Malay Archipelago came to trade. The Bugis ships made Riau the centre for spices. Items found in China or example, cloth and ##### were traded with locally sourced ocean and forest products, tin, pepper and locally grown gambier. Duties were low, and cargoes could be discharged or stored easily. Traders found they do not need to extend credit, for the business was good.[12]
Like Malacca before it, Riau was also the centre of Islamic studies and teaching. Many orthodox scholars from the Muslim heartlands like the Indian Subcontinent and Arabia were housed in special religious hostels, while devotees of Sufism could seek initiation into one of the many Tariqah (Sufi Brotherhood) which flourished in Riau.[13] In many ways, Riau managed to recapture some of the old Malacca glory. Both became prosperous due to trade but there was a major difference; Malacca was also great due to its territorial conquest.
In 1818, Sir Thomas Stamford Raffles was appointed Governor of Bencoolen in West Sumatra. However, he was convinced that the British needed to establish a new base in Southeast Asia to compete with the Dutch. Although many in the British East India Company opposed such an idea, Raffles managed to convince Lord Francis Rawdon-Hastings, then Governor-General of British India, to side with him. With his consent, he sought a new base.
When Raffles’s expedition reached Singapore on 29 January 1819 he discovered a small Malay settlement at the mouth of the Singapore River headed by a Temenggung (army chief) from Johor. Although the island was nominally governed by the sultanate, the political situation there was extremely murky. The reigning sultan, Tengku Abdul Rahman, was under the influence of the Dutch and the Bugis. He would therefore never accept a British base in Singapore.
With the help of the Temenggung, Raffles managed to capture Tengku Hussein, sending him into exile on one of the Riau Islands, in Singapore. According to a letter between Tengku Hussain and his brother, he left for Singapore out of concern for the safety of his son. He was unfortunately captured by Raffles and forced to make a deal.14 The agreement stated that the British would recognize Tengku Hussein as the “rightful ruler” of “Johor”, for which Tengku Hussein and the Temenggung would receive an annual stipend from the British. . In exchange, Tengku Hussein would allow Raffles to establish a trading post in Singapore. This treaty was ratified on February 6, 1819.
The British asked the ######### Ali to recognize Tengku Hussein as ruler. However, the ######### Ali denied any connection with the events in Singapore, as it was the Temenggung fiefdom, and declared his loyalty to the Sultan of Johor at ################
After waiting since 1835 for his appointment as sultan, in 1852 Tengku Ali decided to return Johor to its former empire by paying homage to Sultan Mahmud Muzaffar at ####### For three years the Sultanate was again independent, except for Singapore, which was ceded to the British. Concerned about the state of affairs, the British recalled Tengku Ali to Singapore with the threat of canceling his stipend. The British forced the 1855 treaty between Temenggung Ibrahim and Tengku Ali. In exchange for recognition as sultan, Tengku Ali agreed to abandon all attempts to control Johor. In this way, the treaty solidified the position of Temenggung Ibrahim, his key ally.
In 1855, Temenggong Ibrahim selected Tanjung Puteri, a small fishing village in southern Johor which would later develop into Johor Bahru, as the administrative headquarters of the state. Temenggong Ibrahim was succeeded by his son, Temenggong Abu Bakar, who later took the title Seri Maharaja Johor.
Sultan Abu Bakar has often been credited as the “Father of Modern Johor” due to the modernisation of the state under his rule. He introduced a constitution known as *[Undang-undang Tubuh ###### ####################################################################### and developed an efficient administration system, officially moving administrative operation of the state to Johor Bahru. As the capital of the state, Johor Bahru witnessed significant growth and development, culminating to the construction of buildings on grand scales with architecture deriving from Western and Malay sources. Johor as a whole also enjoyed economic prosperity. An increased demand for black pepper and gambier in the 19th century led to the opening up of farmlands to the influx of Chinese immigrants, creating Johor’s initial economic base. The Kangchu system was put in place.
I agree that age of empire 3 need more civs. In Asia and around the world. keep in mind the time frame that the game entails. based on the time frame. I think that in Asia’ Cambodia and Koreans would be good, in India I feel any fix is good. The explorer dies too quickly. but let not just limit it to Asia and India; but I feel Canada, south American countries, Scotland, and other European countries and maps that would improve the game for the period that the game time frame allows. I also would recommend more explorer skins to enhance the civs. that are already there.
