I want pike to be able to catch them. Currently only horsemen can catch them and horsemen aren’t cheap nor quick at killing scouts.
But I really do like the idea of a setup time to picking them up. At least that way in conjunction with a speed reduction, scouts could drop the carcass and run away but have to start all over in terms of setup time to pick up the carcass again. As well as be a response to “yoink” under your TC.
Currently the new meta to protect your carcass is to keep your own scouts near by to pick them up if enemy scouts try to swoop in… or build a mini palaside bunker to eat inside.
with abassid i actually absolutely ignore it. i go double tc, then castle, then massing spears / archers, then start to build mangonels and go forward.
rus getting scared really quickly with his horsearchers. he naturally then adds springalds, i stop producing mangonels when i have 3-5 and then go imp, by the time he has some springalds i have 2 culvs.
only thing i do against rus is try to kill as many deer and wolf as possible with my scout
as abassid you have to be a step ahead of your opponent all the way.
Good luck reaching imp before 5-relics-RUS Guy… cmon, at equals levels u would lose. If u r wining its because u r better player overall, no for the strat.
Watch pro games IMO and use their level of ABUSE to gauge JUST how unbalance the tech is.
IMO the scout ITSELF ALSO NEEDS A NERF;
delete the animation cancelling nonsense and also reduce the base HP of scouts to comparable to the cost something like 65 HP (just a lil over villagers!!)
then also implement the reduce movement speed (20-30% speed reduction) ONTOP of the setup animation to picking up a deer carcass (something like 2 sec animation).
This would make it suicidal to have a group of scout dive under a tower/TC to steal deers AND it would make it easier to catch scouts in the open and punish them.
Cause right now with the LOS on scouts, scouts can clearly see when a group of hunt is being guarded and they can strategies at what angle to swoop in and steal deer. The advantage is completely on the scouts side currently.
After some thought I’m not opposed to the idea of them completely removing the tech… the tech is anti map control. The whole incentive of th deer meat is a faster source of food as oppose to farms berries and sheep BUT at a risk since you’d have to be out on the map.
Pro scouts is extremely cheap and OP rewarding since you completely remove the risk of exposure AND you get an even faster food spike given you can gather the meat at your town center.
So I’m well in favor of it being removed…or the price gets significantly increased to where you have to get 10+ deer to make it worth it. As well as the other suggestions (lower hp scout, setup time picking up meat, slower speed on scouts when caring).
Not just is safer and can place next to town center. You also don’t list time sending the villager to where the deers are. Don’t lost time building mill. And don’t need to waste resources on the building.
Ai will like it removed or, as you said, his cost increased a LOT xD
This tech is not cheap. Probably one of the most expensive feudal age techs that exists.
Before removing the tech why don’t make it a castle age tech instead? No need to nerf anything more than that. If you can’t contest deers in castle age then you deserve to lose them imo.
I’d also go so far and allow a boar pickup with this tech in castle/imp to make boars more useful. Maybe with a speed reduction while carrying. But nerfing scouts hp/movementspeed in general seems a bit overkill for me.
scoot should begin weaker in HP and have a hp buff in each age.Less Hp in feodal and dark age more in other age.
At the moment the real problem of pro scoot is that there is no counter. You can literraly do nothing if a scoot with deers run away. Nerf the speed like a normal footmen speed with deers and it’s will be more healty.
Another subject nerf scoot damage on building. It’s juste incredible to play abassid win the map control against a broken mungal players destroy 50% of his villagers and his base. He produce 50 scoot in 3 min rush your main tc and your monument when you army chasing his last monument and win like that with 0 real army … That is just ■■■■■■■ stupid. Dev do your job
Applying a speed reduction should be enough.
They should be tweaked so that they don’t go to the opponent’s base and steal their hunts without any risk of getting caught while keeping the tech still viable so you can at least bring the hunts that are closer to your base back.
The scout is used because of professional scouts. Putting this tech to castle age and people won’t make them that much anymore. No need to nerf an unit when you just can nerf an upgrade. Scout hp/movementspeed is not really an issue when they don’t do anything with deers. Close deers should be mostly gone by the time people hit castle age and players should be able to protect the 2nd deer patch by then if they want to.
Horsemen should be buffed, not scouts nerfed.
Scout are more tanky than horseman lol and give you a lot of info. Rus spam them a way more than just for pro scout, it’s the frontline of the HA spam.
Which other civs spam them besides rus for combat/as meatshield? Nerfing a unit that everyone has just because one civ abuses them rather than adjusting the civ is not good game balancing.
Moving pro scout to castle is terrible idea, it will pretty much make it unusable.
All it needs is a speed penalty when carrying deer so ppl dont just go to the other side of the map stealing hunts before even going for their own.
Some people propose to delete this tech(hint: read thread title ), thats why i said before that they could just make it a castle age tech(at which point it probably would need the ability to carry boars aswell). I’m with you that adjusting the carry-speed is probably the best way to fix pro scouts + make them unable to pick up deer while villagers gather them.
The actual problem with pro scout is it’s anti map control. For just 350 resources you can spam 60 res scouts to very quickly cover the map and come back with 1400 food (4 scouts) per trip. 4 scouts cost 240 food and takes 80 to que from one stable. So for an investment of 350+ 240 (590 res) you can bring back at least 2 herds of deer for at min 2800 food right under your TC/TOWERS. And the only current threat is enemy scouts swooping in to yoink your deer…
Is there any tech in the whole game as rewarding EVEN if a speed reduction is introduced?
In the case of Rus you have tower and TC to protect you and bounty gold and market landmark to swap food for other resources.
Let’s think back to what dev said about delhi capturing sites in dark age? It forced the enemy to play a singular way. How is this not the same?
There should be an incentives to expand out on the map.
On another topic horsemen cost 120 resources for only 125 feudal hp and 9 base attack… meanwhile scouts cost 60 res!! Has 110 Hp and 4 base attack… you see balance? Why does the scout need so much hp??? Don’t forget scouts passively heal themselves…
Back to the OP. IMO remove the pro scouts all together and correctly incentives players to build out on the map and keep control. OR at the very least make the tech not a defacto must do it first before my enemy does it.
Lower scout’s hp, add setup time to picking up carcasses, reduce the movement speed of scouts carrying deer.
My rational for the setup time is to deter the idea of yoinking deer from under heavily defensive structures with min damage. The idea behind the lower movement speed is so that spears and horsemen can charge at the scout and force the scout to drop the body and run or risk dying and losing the deer.
These suggestions with promote armies partying with scouts to retrieve deer meat and or simply expanding out on the map with defensive structures to secure the meat.
Lastly I like the idea of being able to carry the boar but the scout should move much much slower when caring one of those home since it’s 2000 food and fastest gathering food source (maybe deep sea a villager shoreline fishing is comparable? ).
Nerfing one units which are suppose to be usless in fight is a good way to nerf the only civ which abuse of them. Nerfing the scout HP (at least, age 2) wont change anything from other civ but Rus, which is what we want.
I think we can combine a couple of ideas from this thread to make this mechanic more interactive.
Firstly: increase the “pick-up-time” to 2-6 seconds
Secondly: make the pick-up action interruptible by any dmg
Edit: I’m not sure what a good pick-up-time would be, ideally you want nearby units to be able to engage a scout in the process of picking up deer so it should at least last longer than it takes to walk a tile or so and attack. if the time window is too short it will only be viable to interrupt with archers or other ranged (incidentally buffing ENG because of their villagers) and if the time window is too long it will never be viable to pick up deer when enemies are nearby. I think it would be best to find something in between to promote risk-reward as well as planning.
Now you’ll have to actually fight for the deer if you want to steal them from your opponent. Additionally it’s now possible to deny the Rus their food as well as their bounty, possibly balancing the scales of their FC in high ELO.
This seems to be all that’s really needed at the moment I think but I could be wrong, thoughts?
Its funny you talk about that,i dont know about multiplayer,but i play at the campaign yesterday and pro scout exactly work like that,scout is rly slow down when you carrying deer and even more when its a boar carcasse
), thats why i said before that they could just make it a castle age tech(at which point it probably would need the ability to carry boars aswell). I’m with you that adjusting the carry-speed is probably the best way to fix pro scouts + make them unable to pick up deer while villagers gather them.