Everytime people start using anything in this game becomes a time of bitching and whining. Just remove all the units and the game.
Yea nothing was wrong in aoe2 with the step lancer at the begining. It’s not like all the pro are agree to said professional scout need to be nerf
Source needed, buddy.
This chap casts a lot of pro’s play. And this isn’t the start of pro scouts usage, its basically been the meta since the Genisis tournament which was around a month ago. His tier list basically reflects the civ’s that have the quickest access to pro scouts, those being Rus, Mongols and French because they have easy quicker access to scouts which sky rockets their civs economy.
And no one is whining, its simply something that has very limited counterplay other than to either do it yourself or wall in every hunt.
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The Professional Scout upgrade has no counter in this game. You would spend more resources walling deer on the map than the upgrade itself that collects them.
Scouts should be 20-25% slower with loaded animal.
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Interesting idea. Maybe 10%?
The problem I can see with this tech is just how accessible it is for different civs. Abbassids can never beat the professional scout game, aging up a bit later. Delhi is even worse, with the early tech research time. HRE is alright, I’ve been managing to snatch some deer with them, especially if it’s not an open map.
I don’t see a problem with the tech per se (it’s so much fun fighting for the venison, the same as fighting for a pond in Nagari). But there can be a problem to access it if it’s, say, Rus against Delhi.
Exactly, people could also make some archers to defend these deer spots…
The problem is pro scouts comes very early, and you need like 10+ archers to actually kill a scout before it gets away. Scouts have 110 hp and regen and archers do 5 damage. Even 2-3 spears doesn’t prevent scouts from swooping in, if you get lucky you might kill one scout but they still get the other 5 deer.
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Yeah. Its not like you throw down 2 spears and 2 archers on a bunch of deer and viola, the scouts can do nothing. They just run in, shoot, pick up, and run away. You might lose one if you don’t micro and it lets the spearmen poke away a few times. But if you do, oh no, you lost 60 food worth of scout, while making off with thousands of potential food next to your opponents base.
If they were slower than spearmen running away that would obviously hurt - but it would potentially also cripple the tech. (Beyond maybe shifting your own hunts into the safety of being under your TC - which might still be worth it.)
Clearly Abbasid and Delhi should be able to pick up berry bushes.
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Maybe not making them slower than spears would be the solution since that makes carrying hunts crossmap or on larger maps take so much longer. Maybe just lengthening the pickup animation so you cant just yoink them from in front of military units?
I don’t have any problem with the upgrade either, I want it to exist, but I don’t agree that you have to counter by doing the same strategy only or by walling it knowing that this is not usually viable. 10% seems little to me, we signed 15% ;).
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The timing when this can happen is around 8-9 min right?
So you are telling me you dont make an army at this time?
Well France Rus and Mongols hit feudal somewhere around 430-5 min and immediately click professional scouts which is 75 seconds, so its generally pre6 minutes, China is probably faster since the research is only 25 seconds (but they have to build a stable for having more than 1-2 scouts)
The current Rus build is hitting castle age and building horse archers pre-8 minutes (usually it ends up being after 8 since your scouts are often contested nowadays though)
I would kill for an auto scout button. I get so focus on building that I often forget to scout
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Just ask any top 200 players, i have never heard someone of them not agree with that fact. If you need a scientific paper in a big review to be convinced, i will give up.
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takes about 6-8 horsemen to reliably kill a single scout carrying a deer corpse from wherever b4 they reach their home base. you can only hit them using the joust mechanic.
Pretty sure horsemen don’t get any charge attack like knights (if that’s what you meant by joust). 6-8 sounds like overkill but ofc it depends all on timing, who’s paying more attention, distance to travel, etc. I’ve seen people try to wall hunt in and also park 3-4 spears on hunt as well. Mongols, French and Rus are definitely favoured since they can build scouts the easiest. Probably the best solution is to just slow down movespeed of scouts carrying deer about 10% to allow better chance at killing them.
The game has devolved into a semi Turtle into fast castle bc of the power of the professional scout.
I hope the devs will create a legit counter to professional scout that doesn’t complete obliterate the pro scout function but allows the opponent to realistically counter its effectiveness.
I suggest scouts get reduced to half movement speed when caring a carcass. This would allow static defenses and mobile military to engage the scout. As well as slow down the speed at which the professional scout returns on investment.
Another option is to change the deer spots to have each player with their own safe deer and all the rest of the deers spawn in heavily contested central areas. Or a variation to the above approach is to reduce the number of safe deer herds to only have 3 deers but make the large herds have 8 to 10 however be in a central and highly contested area of the map.
I believe the last few tournaments featured the imbalance of the current state of professional scouts.
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yeah I think the russ campaign also has the speed reduction, would be nice to apply to carrying relic as well.
yeah they need a nerf, a lot of food at home with no a big effort, even if you not do the same the other player takes all your deers,
A good nerf could be 30% speed reduction when horses carry the hunt and maybe 2 seconds to pick up them.
it’s ok to have an option to defensive civs or players but no fun when you can’t punish that or at least protect your own food.
Profesional scouts is one of the things that makes Russ FC too strong and hard to counter.
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