Well I was thinking more in the ways of practice and timings. You’re right about that, just because it’s easy for me doesn’t mean it’s easy for everybody. This thing with the Extreme Ai is also something Spirit of the Law says, it’s kind of a way to be more of less ready for MP, but of course it’s not necessary at all, especially for Ranked.
But you have to agree that AoE2 isn’t really the type of game that you install and jump straight into multiplayer without knowing anything about it. Of course it can be done… not gonna go well though. But I understand their pain very well, when i started playing the HD version i could beat the extreme Ai and went into MP and got my butt kicked so hard i never played MP again, until DE came out lol
I think the Op is right, I almost stoped playing because of this as a newcomer.
I think towers and gates are to weak. Towers should be cheaper and Gates more tanky.
Offensive Towers should be nerfed by giving villagers bonus damage against them. Quickwalls should be nerfed. They should be destroyed more quickly by military. Also castle drops should be maybe similarily used by giving everything bonus damage against buildings in construction. Builing a castle in an enemy town is compelety unrealistic historically.
Overall house walls should be nerfed, therefore regular Palisade walls should be buffed.
Villagers should maybe have additional damage against Cavalry. It could be an additional tech.
I think custom 1 player scenarios are the best practice for noobs. Get them to go to Mods and subscribe to some build order scenarios without enemy AI so they can just focus on the builds. I think it’s Cicero’s builds last time I checked. They’re probably a bit out of date with the current meta but any build is better than no build at the low levels. Perfecting those build orders with no idle time and no idle villagers alone will put them head and shoulders above everyone below 1000 ELO. Then they just need to learn small walls and wall to TC and they will have a solid basis to start from.
Once they have the builds down, they can get some micro scenarios or make their own scenarios based on what they need to work on. E.g. Playing a 1 player game vs AI and creating a save point just before their weakest spot in the game. For instance, just before hitting Feudal or Castle Age because there’s a lot to do when you hit the next age, so if you drill those timings over and over, you will get much sharper than your opponents and gain an edge. Survivalist mentioned this in one of his recent videos and it’s really helpful.
Beyond that they just need to put the hours in on the ladder. Rewatch their losses, analyse stronger opponents, show recs to their friends, watch pro tutorial and games etc. It’s a bit of a grind, however it should be fun if they have the right mindset.
Someone might have asked this already, but have you had them play against each other? That probably won’t help them improve quickly, but it might help them have fun.
For years, I pretty much only played AoE2 against my brother. In hindsight we were both rubbish at it, but I enjoyed every minute.
Of course, they should start with build order tutorial scenarios with no enemy AI. Then learn all the essential units and counters. But if 20 games is too much of an investment and they can’t handle losing a lot, maybe this game is just not for them. The game has already been “dumbed down” to an extent with all the quality of life improvements e.g. auto scout and shift queuing etc. I don’t think the barrier to entry is really that high nowadays and I don’t think it needs dumbing down even further. There’s so much content out there to help them, more than ever before. Imagine trying to get good at this game in the dark days of Voobly. It’s so much better now. They literally just have to keep TC and villagers working at beginners level + any basic build order and they will win.
100% agree with the general sentiment and how hard it is to introduce aoe2 to newcomers but unsure whether any big changes to feudal military are the way
Perhaps doing fc on arena might be more manageable.
Playing against ai helps with the problem. Practicing does not. The difference is getting into a game shouldn’t feel like you’re doing homework or studying lol.
Otherwise a lot of people drop aoe and go back to far more familiar games like fps or FIFA or whatever.
Of course, they should start with build order tutorial scenarios with no enemy AI. Then learn all the essential units and counters.
Depends on what you mean with build order. A beginner should learn that vils cost food and buidlings cost wood, and that the first vils should collect food and that wood should be collected a bit later. So they should learn how to get the game going. But that is of corse something different than pro build orders. Learning pro build orders would be as useless for a beginner as learning like the first 10 moves of the Ruy Lopez in chess for a beginner. That is completely useless because it doesn’t explain why things are done, what also makes it not even memorable. So it is more important to learn what military units do and what all buildings do. Pro build orders is the absolute last thing.
When did I say “pro”? Build orders are the basic foundation of the game. Without them, beginners won’t know what to do. And they will get into random bad habits like collecting stone in dark age or building all their houses stacked together in a big cube.
it’s not mistake lol.
It’s how people play. You cant expect someone to have map awareness and time to wall differently.
And i’ve understand it after watching day9 struggles… if he struggle with awful walls, how regular player will play?
nope, EW exist for exactly opposite reason. To provide RB faster and more intense games.
I think the issue - the long start. You spend at least 7 minutes into the game before drush, drush can crush you complitly, but you’ve already invested 7 minutes of gameplay? For what? To die like this?
Imagine now, you start with 9 vils.
You spend only 2 minutes into the game, so you could potentially play 3 games against one with regular start. Less emotionally invested into the game, more experience to defend drush.
Ofcourse people will need to learn game… but if you destroyed in the castle by huskarls… you just analyse game.
But if you destroyed at 600 ELO by only drush, than same noob player - well execute one strategy… you will be frustrated.
I think the issue is not scouts, but investment of time to the game in which you failed to achive anything.
You wont spend your precious time just to make 20 vils and die in 10 minutes.
The initial error in the early game is very punishing and almost unrecoverable.
let noobs try more strategies in less time. with 9 vils start.
thats actually very reasonable argument. i guess it comes down to how much players would they risk to piss off and let go vs how many new players willing to come in with 9 vills start.
even though I understand what you’re getting at, I still prefer 3 vill due to how the game had been for decades. with RTS a dying breed (or might start again who knows), they might not go for 9 vill start as theres already EW for this.
When did I say “pro”? Build orders are the basic foundation of the game.
You didn’t specify the type of build order. That is why I said it depends what you mean.
Newcomers should learn general rules. “Build order” is the wrong term for this. For example not collecting stone in dark age, is a general rule not a build order.
Yeah, I know lots of people who don’t want to deal with Feudal rushes when starting out. That’s one of the biggest drawbacks of DE’s current matchmaking system. Instead of being able to play Arena or BF or even Green Arabia like lots of new players did in the past, they’re forced to play on lots of different maps right at the start.
Knowing not to collect stone is still part of a build order. Build order just means knowing what to do with your villagers every time they spawn from the TC and knowing when to stop and move up to the next age. It’s really bad practice for noobs to just play the game without a build order, blindly hoping that assigning villagers to random resources will help them understand the game. It won’t; it will just build bad habits and confuse them. If “build order” is too overwhelming, then they should at least learn the basics of why build orders work. E.g. 6 on food allows constant villager production, so never have less than 6 on a food source per TC and knights need 6 on food + 6 on gold per stable for constant production etc.
Like any games, any activity, and absolutely anything that need skills, there is a time of adaptation and experience require.
If you you play the game and you get diretly fed up after defeats, it means you don’t like the game and there no necessity to force you to play the game.
When I started AOE2, I was loosing 99% of my matchs but I still continue and liked it.
You cannot change the game balance for the sake of some potential newcomers.
If the goal is to make the entry into ranked matchmaking less frustrating, I think the simplest practical solution is to advice newcomers: ban Arabia+Arena, play something else. Simply because the majority of the playerbase is well familiar with these two maps, but has less experience everywhere else. So it evens the playing field a bit.
You didn’t state what your/their goal is here. Playing 1v1 RM ranked? What elo? Have they completed all Art of War with gold medal? Interactive Build Order Guides with grade A? Beaten Extreme AI? If not just prepare to be below 1k elo and that’s fine.
Imagine not playing Arena and complaining Arabia is too open. You can always small wall your resources in advance so you don’t need quickwall. You can always put your spear on defensive stance in area not walled yet, so they don’t chase scout forever.