AI too sensitive. They resign way too early. Please fix

The 104 command to stop them resigning does not work I made sure to send the message to all AI players but they still quit.

This is a very strange option anyway and not well sign posted. A checkbox in the game setup would be nice.

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Yes, exactly. I advocated the same a long while ago.

Ideally, we shouldn’t have to spend any time while trying to play the game to send 104 out; especially if you have to go to the trumpet icon to send to Everyone.

The last thing on my mind once match has started is to chat 104 to AI. And every second of gameplay is precious and counts. It should be a lobby option, and/or a global game menu setting. I never want AIs to resign for games I create.

When 104 kind’ve worked fairly reliably, I’d often forget until enemy was quarter- or half-destroyed, and then I’d think, “Oh no! I have to do 104!!” and AI would resign right that second :expressionless: Happened to me many times.

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Yes I think the AI has suffered from a philosophy that it should behave as efficiently as possible and like a human opponent in multiplayer rather than a flavourful fun opponent.

Perhaps it is good if you are using the AI as a sparring partner for PvP but its not been great for those who are only interested in playing Vs AI and want to enjoy ourselves fighting them.

But I will avoid going on a tangeant about my thoughts on AI design in AOE2:DE and lets just have an easy option to stop them quitting! :slight_smile:

I don’t this is nearly as irrelevant as you think it is. Having AIs with different “personalities” can be quite useful in many ways, not just single player. Gives variety too, and whether you believe ir or not, there’s a proportionally big amount of players that prefer relaxing playing against the AI than bothering with multiplayer, which is totally acceptable.

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I agree I think part of the problem is when developers assume the AI is just a ‘stepping stone’ to playing versus other players when people like myself have absolutely no interest in PvP.

Which you could argue is flawed in the first place since the generally agreed wisdom to get better at fighting humans is to just fight humans and accept you will lose a lot and try to learn.

Its things like how they stopped the AI from building walls because they were not doing it 100% perfectly. I understand why they did it but the AI towns are not as fun to attack and there is no need for siege towers.

Interesting. I don’t know that that’s their philosophy… it could be… but I also have little or no interest in PvP, generally speaking.

I’d have to believe devs didn’t purposely try to relegate AI to just a stepping stone role, though. I hope not anyways :slight_smile: I think they’ve worked to make them behave more like humans, which I can appreciate.

  • I’ve always advocated giving AIs different human-like and somewhat unpredictable behaviors. I’ve seen some of that come to fruition, like how they go off to different parts of the map to go snag resources or to flee attacks at home and keep building econ.
  • Next step would be to have more variety in said behaviors (some AI being turtlers, some being timid or purely defensive, some ferocious, etc.)… along with corresponding personalities in the text chats to you.

Good point. I’ve also noticed the lack of walls, but had completely forgotten about it and/or forgot they maybe used to do that (because it’s been so long)? Them building walls again would be great

Just a moment ago, playing on hardest versus 2 AI, I showed up at one of their borders without attacking (just amassing forces prior to attack) and BAMF, both resigned - SIGH!

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Ugh, that’s too bad :frowning: That’d be a frustrating

Hi there, I wonder if you can give any updates on how this is coming along?

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While playing a 1v1 Skirmish match vs. AI tonight, I opened chat and chatted “104” by clicking 104 in the long list of commands. I then exited and went back to make sure it was on “Everyone” – and it was – and also clicked “AI Commands” and clicked “104” again just to make sure. (Since we still don’t know the exact trigger, and still don’t get a verbal affirmation from the AI, or a scripted note in chat, saying they won’t resign.)

Despite all that, the AI resigned with a lot of their stuff left.

In fact, the AI had just sent a massive army my way which I staved off moments earlier; so, it’s not like he was just lulling about for 30 minutes. (Not that that should matter, though. If I do “104” then 104 it should be.)

I’m on the latest build/patch… the starry night one
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I mean, look at this… the AI is red. I never even got to attack his home town one time. Not once. Yet, he sent at least 8 or 10 waves of massive armies and boats my way.

Yes, the one time I was finally able to infiltrate and attack his town, he resigns.

I had just created a bunch of units, just upgraded a bunch of Barracks techs, and just made a forward base… all for nothing. He got scared and quit. He was getting cornered and just couldn’t take it anymore.

This game is meant to entertain us, the players… not the AI. If we say “don’t resign,” then they shouldn’t resign, imo, no matter how upset, sad, defeated, or hopeless they feel.

  1. No AI team
  2. Pop cap: 400
  3. Difficulty Level: Moderate
  4. Skirmish/Random Map
  5. Standard starting/ending age

image
image

 

These are the only mods I had enabled:

image
image

 

I went back through my chat history, and you can see the two times I did “104”. The 1st time, I had scrolled down to “104” in this chat box and clicked it. The 2nd time, I enabled the “AI Commands” checkbox in this chat box and clicked “104” again. I was trying to cover all my bases:

 

Here is his resignation a while later:

 

Again, there are many ways to accommodate everyone’s playstyles and varied desires as to when an AI should resign when “104” is used. Even a sensitivity slider bar in preferences or in the lobby could be a solution. “How likely should AI be to resigning when faced with your power?” Something like this:
[ Never | When all bldgs are gone | When all units are gone | Random (surprise me) | If they’re sneezed on ]
I can think of many other ways to accommodate multiple preferences on this.

I still also think a confirmation should appear so we know the game/algorithm properly receives our request, so our 104s don’t fall into the ether like they do:

And if 105 is used, it should show confirmation which AI can resign again.

Taking it a step further, letting us target via chat certain players to let resign or not resign would be great, too. “104/105” would be global in nature (all AI Players), of course. And that would probably be used 90% of the time. But if we could specify a certain players, that’d be neat. Like:

  • “104 @4” to target player 4
    • or “@4 104”, respectively
  • “104 @6” to target player 6
    • or “@6 104”, respectively
  • “104 @1345” (or “104 @1,3,4,5”) to target players 1, 3, 4 and 5
    • or “@1345 104” (or “@1,3,4,5 104”), respectively

This is much like this sling resources via chat idea proposed a while back:

As seen in tonight’s game, my AI was set to “AI (HD version)”. Does that mean they “don’t resign/prevent resignation” chat code in AoE2:DE for this is actually “100” like it was for HD version back in the day (and “101” lets them resign again)? Or should it be respecting “104/105”?

Sadly, after I get some of the rewards for this event, I’m probably leaving AoE2:DE for a long while again… unless and until this resignation stuff can get sorted out. I don’t like spending an hour or two building up my stuff, just to have the AI resign at the drop of a hat. It pulls the rug out from the enjoyment. I realize AoE has probably always been that way, to some extent (random resignations)… but free time doesn’t come as easily these days as it did in the past. If I invest time into AoE games nowadays, I want it to be worth it; not have an anti-climactic ending to all my hard work.

Thanks!

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Have you tried the Barbarian AI by TheMax?

No, and it doesn’t really matter. I had cereal and orange juice for breakfast today, but that is pretty irrelevant to my post :wink:

Is the AI HD updated to listen to the 104 taunt? Maybe it is only a AI DE AI thing (and fan made AIs) thing…

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I’m not sure. I’ve asked/hypothesized about that a few times, but don’t think we’ve gotten an answer from game devs.

Only other option if devs aren’t sure or can’t find out is to do tests and report back. If I do that, it will take a few years. If community does it, we’d probably know the answer within a week or two

Either way, as the player, there should be no difference in chat rules just because you picked a non-DE AI style. Not good user experience, unless it is explicitly mentioned in-game when choosing non-DE AI. So, if that is happening, then I feel it’s a bug

And if it happens for 104/105, does that mean none of the new AI commands work for HD/CD AI?

My good friend “104” didn’t work again! This feature is still very unreliable, and I’ve even reinstalled the game on a new hard drive since all my previous attempts from past years.

I was in a 2 human vs. 4 AI game a few days ago…

  • 2 of them were the DE version of AI
  • 1 was the CD version of AI
  • 1 was the HD version of AI

Funnily, the Definitive Edition (DE) ones resigned first. Like houses made of cards… just tumbled at the first sign of trouble, after they had been hammering us with huge armies for 30+ minutes. They lost all hope because a gentle breeze started to blow in.

Then the HD version was next to go after being attacked just a little bit. Glass house.

The CD version was the one that had some intestinal fortitude and staying power, surprisingly. Not quite a card or glass house, but still… fairly close to it.

None of them let us finish them off completely. This 104 chat is just broken beyond repair. Is in need of an overhaul and new solutions implemented. Having to write about it for years on end is a little tiresome. Is it possible to divert some resources away from creating cute avatars for a while to develop a solution, possibly?

I feel like I could probably take a weekend course on writing code and come up with a solution. Seems like simple IF/THEN code logic to me. If I could probably devise something by Monday, surely devs would feel they could have something by tomorrow, relatively speaking?

Is the power to prevent the AI from resigning tucked away behind lock and key in some vault within the game code, or something?

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Do share your results the weekend is just around the corner.

I said I probably could. Didn’t say I wanted to… it’s not really my job or passion right now to patch a game for free. Plus, I doubt we have access to the source code… and doubt this could be modded in by casual players for that reason. I’d pay for $5 DLC to have this fixed by the experts.

If you don’t think it’s an easy code update, do tell us all about your experience in coding so we can learn from your experience. I’ve done a little bit of coding before, and once you understand the logic of what needs to happen here, it really shouldn’t be that difficult if you’re really good at the coding language and coding for the game… which I’d assume they are by now.

If you’ve coded for AoE2 before, are you really so sure that doing the following would be incredibly difficult, taking an experienced coder for this game longer than two hours max?

  1. Make a new checkbox in lobby: “Prevent AI Resignations”
  2. Code the logic: If box is enabled, then do not allow the code to run that triggers AI to resign. Ever.
  3. Do UAT
  4. Release patch

OR

  1. Make a new pop-up triggered by resigning AI…
  • If AI is about to trigger the resignation code, then insert pop-up box: “AI Player wants to resign. Do you allow them to? YES/NO”. If YES, then AI resigns, as usual. If NO, then force them to keep playing (or at least force them to stick around), and set resignation toggle to “Never resign” so they never ask again during match.

ChatGPT could probably do it for us/them, too :wink:

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Did you make sure that the Message “104” was send to the AI?
In Teamgames your messages just go out to allys If you didnt change it in the settings.

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Thanks, you know, I’m not sure. Don’t think I did. Doing that never helped before, but I’ll be more mindful of it again, as I had forgotten because it’s been a while since I last played

Regardless, it’s a symptom of the broken system, imo.

  1. If AI gave chat confirmations when entering 104, I would have immediately known it didn’t work (since no confirmations would have appeared)
  2. There should be a checkbox in the lobby so you can click it and forget it – rather than having to try to remember in the heat of the match (and spending time in the heat of the match) to do it, and then crossing your fingers hoping you did it the way the game wants and that the AI will respect your wishes.

So many ways this experience could be improved.

  • Default the game to 104. This way, if anyone loves the AI folding like a house of cards, they can go try and remember to jump through “105” AI Command hoops during all of their matches, just as I’ve had to do for every match for 104
  • I’ll try chatting #104 or *104 next time to reach all AI. Which I just re-learned by Google searching you can use # or * before your chat to message everyone. (Don’t know that I see this info is in the hotkeys menus.)
    • Based on past experience, it won’t be that reliable. Nor would AI Commands 104 if you spend time going into the chat menu for that. (Open menu, click “Everyone”, click “AI Commands”, scroll down to “104”, and select that. Go back out to game and see that five of your villagers got pwned by a Mangonel while you were playing the Chat menu mini-game mid-match.)

Hi there,
To permanently disable AI resign you can do the following:

  • Right click the game in Steam library → Browse local files

  • Go to resources\_common\ai\Promisory and open customConstants.per in notepad

  • On the third line, change (defconst enable-resign 1) to (defconst enable-resign 0)

This will affect your singleplayer, and MP games created as a host, though not MP games joined as a client.

Hope this helps.

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Thanks, StepS7578. Appreciate that! The file says the change will not be permanent, though. At the top:

;Settings for advanced users (you will need to re-fill these settings every patch)

So, I will still hope for a more permanent solution embedded in the game someday vs. somewhat modded in like this. At least I have a workaround, though, which is nice