And... What about cheat codes..?

Age of Empires IV IV - Discussion
41

Why you keep repeating the same thing instead of replying to what I said?

Developers admitted game will be missing features that will be delivered post-launch. Not me.
Unless you are counting map editor as added, extra feature. I don’t. You can expect the finished game to only have campaign mode and you have right to.

Where did I say it’s unpolished and buggy? Please quote me.
I’ve explained that but clearly you refuse to read.
And btw- how can I say anything about IV, it’s not released. Your accusation doesn’t make sense.

Since it’s not finished AND not advertised as early access - I don’t think that’s debatable. You didn’t present a different view.

For me scenario is also new. For me, as a casual mp player, scenario editor is more important than proper competitive multiplayer.
I’ve spent few decades ago untold amount of time in AoE I and II’s map editor.
For me it is as important as campaigns.

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Since basics like cheats are missing… are there taunts…?
I’ve… ‘heard’ that build was missing basic color picker and many core customization options for maps, enemy AI, skirmish game rules etc. I don’t expect taunts to be there.

For me it’s not enough. This is IVth installment of AoE series. This should be groundbreaking and pristine.

But hey. They, after 1 year delay, they are still cutting features (Forge editor and something else) from upcoming HALO. So I guess everything is on the table for the rest of the games.

I guess… ‘covid’.

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42

Yeah its unfortunate. Personally it’s enough for me to enjoy until other features show up. For others who wanted those features they’d probably wait till those come out. And that’s fine, only buy a game that you feel is worth it.

43

Yeah thats fine. You clearly see those features as important to you.

Ok then tell it to me straight, you’re talking about any game released or Aoe IV specifically? You are 100% talking about aoe IV in this post.

44

As I remember, Civ 6 did that too, post-launch scenario editor and mod tool. I don’t agree with that, especially with this price of AAA games, but it seems that this has become normal in the gaming industry.

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45

Yeah capitalism kinda sucks. Investors pressure devs to release a minimum viable product in as fast as possible a time so they can make back on their money faster.

46

Yeah super annoying. Yeah I wondered that myself, if they even saw the result of their interview.

47

The statement that the game is the most buggy at launch is as obvious and indisputable as that ‘the water is wet’. This is an assessment of the relative state of the code at launch in the context of what follows.

The game can be almost perfect and have literally 3 bugs @ launch and get one patch. In that case, what I said still applies - at the time of its premiere, it is in its worst version.
This is probably not hard to understand - unless we find that patching the game worsens its condition? AoE games are very complex and civ balance alone… hell, even netcode optimization, counts for hundreds of small fixes and tweaks.

And I repeat that again - this is just a part of described situation. IV won’t be F2P, but a premium-priced AAA title, and that comes with expectations.
Not only early adopters are confronted with typical problems present for every game (that I’ve mentioned above), but also they still are in the dark about the quality of single player content, on top of that still there’s a lot of question marks about how feature-rich it will be from skirmish options to options available for multiplayer match creation. And now lack of map editor. Not even modding groups will be able to start work on their projects, without proper toolset.

Even before all that, before beta people were discussing lowering the price, with the visual presentation in mind. There are too many issues.

The game comes out in a ~month and we hardly know what we are going to really get.

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48

Of course, I hope that Age 4 doesn’t become Warcraft 3 Reforged, which promised a lot, didn’t deliver half of what was promised and destroyed the classic version.

49

Yeah sure, features missing is a problem and I can understand people not wanting the game if they’re missing. But like 3 bugs is really fine for a AAA title. Sure it is the “MOST” buggy the game can be but it is a little misleading to say that with such few problems.

It does happen sometimes lol.

My point was simply to say that the game is very stable and playable and the main modes should be in the release. Unlike Cyberpunk which was a literal scam at launch.

In the case of Relic we have the opposite problem, they are openly telling us what features aren’t in the game yet and are barely telling us anything to hype over.

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50

Participating in the beta forums made it pretty clear that “global queue” is referring to the UI element and not matchmaking.

51

You are right, I think they mean that too.

But as the video pointed out, global queue was always present in AOE2DE, so something got mixed up there: “It’s something that we absolutely want to add - but it’s worth remembering it wasn’t in AoE2 at launch, and it wasn’t even in Definitive Edition until later. So we’re… we’re trying.”

52

Yeah the statement of wasn’t in DE at first doesn’t make sense either way.

53

Someone has said earlier that global queue was referring to either cross-platform or cross-server ranked queue or something like that. I don’t really remember whether those were in DE since launch, but it makes some sense.

54

Many people are saying that, after watching that bunk video.

DE has had cross region matchmaking since launch.

That has also not been “much-demanded”. There were zero threads about that during the beta.

Not a single time did anyone use “global queue” in reference to matchmaking. It was however used many, many times in reference to the UI element.

I’m sure the gaming “journalist” guy had no idea what they were even talking about.

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55

no, thats not true. I agree with it being delivered. I dont agree with it not being delivered. You cant say you disagree with sushi because if done wrong it can make you sick.

Its good, if done correctly

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56

There’s not much to gain from making people sick with your sushi (what, maybe saving a few bucks with older, spoiled ingredients?), and there’s a whole damn lot to lose, not to mention it’s literally a crime if you do it deliberately (and probably in most places even if not done on purpose). There are actual consequences here to make sure they deliver something acceptable (ie: at least not poisonous) after taking your money, so not really comparable by a long shot.

And even then, the point still stands: when you go out for some sushi, you DO agree with the risk of getting sick from it - it’s part of the package. It’s just that you know there are norms, regulations and serious legal and financial consequences in the food industry (that in no way apply to video games) to “incentivize” businesses to work in your favor and keep that risk to such negligible levels that it’s a perfectly acceptable trade-off. Without most of those consequences, many times businesses are pushed in the other direction: they can benefit (at least on the short term) from not delivering on their promises and scamming you out of your money.
All those incentives and deterrents can’t be seen as disconnect and independent of business models, they come along for the ride in those “trends” and influence how decisions are made and the amount of effort put into stuff, whether you like it or not.

I can assure you: if sushi places made people sick at the same rates and/or faced as little repercussions as video game devs/publishers do for not delivering what customers have paid for, you wouldn’t be able to agree or even have an opinion on it, because that ■■■■ would have been banned out of existence and forgotten a long time ago.

Fortunately there are not many people defending bad sushi practices because “they can be positive on the odd occasion they don’t end up poisoning customers”.

57

Except for the fact that they haven’t falsely advertised anything. They haven’t lied about any of the visuals, mechanics, etc. Hell they are straight up telling you what features will or will not be in the game before launch.

Don’t pretend that people pre-ordered thinking they were going to get anything other than what was in the trailers.

Unlike food poisoning you can literally decide before using the product on whether you want it.
Just cancel your pre-order if you don’t like what the current state of the game will be. (I generally disapprove of preorders before reviews/gameplay anyway)

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58

This was not about AoE4 specifically - in fact, I had a lot of fun in the beta and am quite optimistic about what they’re gonna deliver (and I’m keeping up with the news, so I know exactly what they are promising too). I was just talking about the previously mentioned point about the general trend in the game industry of charging full and then releasing an incomplete game with the promise of adding content later and sometimes not even delivering on that.
Or so I think. Honestly, it was a couple days ago and I’m not quite sure I remember it right.

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59

Well, My example may have been slightly exagerated but I do NOT believe (and I guess you also dont have the data here) that there is a point in believing that many devs dont deliver what they promised.

I am uncertain it is getting “worse”, BF V and Cyberpunk would be prime examples, BUT you have to take into account that nowadays more and more games launch.
So while 2 games like BF/CP in 1996 would have been a HUGE percentage, where a major AAA company produced maybe 1 game a year AT MOST, while there were also much lower counts of AAA Studios - in todays AAA Industry these 2 (which btw were still succesful) while they were/are huge titles, are not THAT much of a “failure percentage”.

On the other hand, I could name a few games of AAA Size with good content updates, or well playable versions at launch. the last 2 cod season passes were great, World of tanks delivers content since 10 years (just to throw something else in) fortnite has a good pass system, there were many early access titels (although these are probably not AAA) or kickstarter the last years which very well delivered.
Not counting AC there, but that still isnt really fixed, so I would say thats just a ubisoft thing :wink:

So I would argue that there is always a risk, as you say, but the majority of games still is finished when delivered, and delivers on the season passes, OR (and thats so great about our time) you can actually get refunds IF the lied to you.

But as mentioned above, they dont in age 4 case.
And I think they didnt really lie in BF V either, they simply suggested stuff that never came.

CP was a blatant lie, but then again, that game was also refunded for everyone who wanted that (I played it on launch on PC for a quick campaign go through only to check my hardware out, no major issues for me personally)

Maybe you have more examples in recent years where devs lied to you, or you personnaly were unlucky to get the selected few games which didnt deliver? :slight_smile:

60

One thing the development team doesn’t seem to understand is that there’s quite a lot of pressure to get this right, and there are various groups in the community that want particular things.

Not including cheat codes and a scenario editor is a huge blow to the content creators, which single handedly kept aoe2 and aoe3 alive. If they release a game which does not address at least partially some of the wishes of all the groups that make the community, all those dissatisfied will simply walk away. And content creators are literally the most important part of the age of empires franchise.

I feel like the devs are going down the same route as sc2, with a lot of hype and build up, releasing a half complete game. But I don’t think they are willing to pour as much money as blizzard did (and the game still ended up dead), so I have a feeling aoe4 will be a swift and resounding failure if they do this release. They would be better off delaying the game.

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