Andean Sling improvement

This is a lackluster UT imho. All 3 meso civs have a UT in Castle to buff skirms, but inca’s is by far the worst imho, since It does not really make skirms better and only helps them a little in a situation where you would rather not be anyway (having skirms in melee).

Furthermore Incas are the worst of the 3 meso civs, and heavily reliant on Gold. They could use a bit of a buff and somthing that does not require Gold like skirms is not bad imho

So while the concept is unique, why not make it a bit more impactful. Like add “skirms (and slingers to?) attacks 20% faster” in addition to the base UT.

They would still have worse firing rate than what dravidians skirms have for free and from Feudal, but at least they would be better then average skirms, just like the other meso skirms

What di you think?

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I would make no min range a civ bonus, and change it to making Eagles cost -30% gold. Maybe rename to El Dorado, and then rename Mayan El Dorado to Cotton Armor.


Maybe add +1 damage and +2 bonus damage.

or they could keep this unique bonus and buff the slinger with +1 damage since its only really viable against infantry atm.

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I kinda wish the old Couriers was still sort of a thing. It’d give Inca units a bit more identity. Speedy Eagles (and possibly other main units?) could be fun. Andean Sling could become a civ bonus and old Couriers can become a new UT. Maybe it can also affect Skirmishers (on top of Kamayuks, Eagles, Slingers).

Then again, that might make Kamayuks a bit too strong. I don’t think Eagles/Slingers/Skirmishers would become overbearing then.

I kinda think the reason why Incas don’t have a (large) eco bonus, whether for Gold or Food (even though realistically they should - but we also don’t see Gunpowder for Chinese outside of Bombard Towers) is that they have the most open tech tree out of all meso civs. Same situation for Magyars and Spanish. If you can do everything, the game very rarely gives you a large eco bonus. I guess the difference is that both Magyars and Spanish have Cavalry while Meso civs don’t, Eagles notwithstanding, so is that enough of a reason to not give you an important eco bonus?

It’s also probably why their Castle UT is the weakest, as they have FU Skirms and Halbs, Archers, and Champion. Even viable Monks (lacking Atonement hurts if enemy goes for a monk war though).


Just give +1/+1 armor to the Skirmishers and Slingers and adjust the price accordingly

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Here we enter to overlapping with Tower Shields

2 similar UT-s for 1 civ. I think skirm/slinger UT should be offensive, maybe a bit reducsed cost on skirms and slingers, -25% or -33%, so they can spam more with less res

Dravidians have ff skirmishers. I think it must be like: “Minimum range removed and +5 pure damage when againts units in close range.”

thats kinda pointless tbh. you give an unique unit only to 1 civ and give them a civ-bonus only that civ can benefit is extremely poor design and makes little sense.

for all civs iirc, the only thing that benefit civ’s unique unit all requires cost as part of unique tech.

You seem really interested in buffing slingers. Can’t say my position has changed in the couple days since the last proposal :joy:: I think Incas could get a buff, but slingers are plenty good.

So is Nomads, but we don’t need to change that to something that would power-up the Mongols. In general I’m open to changing UTs that feel kind of useless, but again, I don’t think slingers are the prime target. Something eco or eagle related would be better IMO.

I think that might be a solid replacement tech. IIRC in the old days it was reworked since it was too weak as an Imp tech compared to the Aztec/Maya UTs. Don’t see why it couldn’t be brought back as a Castle tech though (and base speed of Kamayuks reduced slightly if that becomes a problem). It would also be a small buff for slingers, but not in a way that would make them strong vs. units they’re designed to be bad against.

Eh, slingers already get armor from the Imp UT. This would put them at 5/7 Armor, which is crazy for a counter unit that costs 70 res.

I agree with this 90% as “El Dorado” is more proximate to Incas than Mayas, but still something that belongs on another civ (holding out for Muisca). It could be named as a Quechua language equivalent to “Forced Levy” or something to reflect the mandatory (sometimes military) service.

I once had an idea that would replace the current Andean Sling effect with one that gives Skirmishers +2 attack vs archers; it’s an amplification to their primary use while keeping with the “extra Skirmisher damage” theme that the other two meso civs have for their Castle UTs. While Atlatl makes Aztec Skirms stronger generally, and Hul’che Javelineers makes Maya Skirms good against high-armour targets like siege or buildings, Andean Sling would streamline Inca Skirms, thus creating some sort of generalist-new role (kind of)-raw power triangle, and indirectly enforcing what I see the Incas as: a civilization with multiple counters.

I’d also be okay with bringing back Couriers.

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agreed, never made sense this had to be locked behind a UT. slings should have zero min range, making it “skirms no min range” a civ bonus

this is a huge buff, and might be too much, as discussed previously, this might either be too strong, or simply create too much of a negative experience. eagles themselves are already a really good unit, and incas have a FU/UT for them (unlike for example polish knights losing armour)

why? for the sake of “keeping things the same” for no reason?

i think this is the best solution, just dont affect kamayuks maybe?

imo its better to consider what do incas actually need? they have FU siege, and huskarl eagles, and FU skirms, they dont need even better skirms (these are all anti archer related bonuses) although in imperial slingers could do with a buff, but i think they’re excellent at their job in castle age, its just we dont see infantry in castle age


Mayans also have FU skirms and Halbs and archers, and much better archers at that. The only thing they lack is champion, which is not very needed when you have amazing eco and the strongest eagles in the game

Incas cannot do anithing, they barely can do a bit more than other meso civs but not by much. We are not talking bizantines. But yeah, i’m fine with them not having a dirext eco bonus, but their UT being the weakest makes 0 sense, and infact they are the weakest meso civ by winrate and performance

Surely there is a bit or room for a buff, especially if it’s a UT which already requires res to research and a Castle. Does not even need to be huge.


The tower shield buff only PA so this tech could buff only MA and would even sinergize with the 0 minimum range, so that it makes that parte impactful since with +2(? Or more?) MA skirms and slingers could actually survive a bit better in melee

Would be and interesting concept

because it is a good tech for removing minimum range, there are hardly any tech that removes minimum range, korean’s team bonus being one on onager and thats about it (aside from murder hole).

civ will get more repetitive if these kind of stuff kept on getting removed. we have already lost saracen and slav’s UT and replace them with something that is more transparent, I just feel that people need to explore options more before calling it useless (bengalis’s monk is kinda OP atm due to the bonus as civ-bonus)

saracen on the other hand is a bit lackluster and I probably had a role in getting it removed due to me reporting a bug, still I wished they change it in a way that kept it’s original purpose on returning resource upon a unit’s death, perhaps buff it by not only applying to monks.

I’m not. I would just want an Imperial upgrade for any unit in the game, such as Skirmishers too for example

Except mongols are a top tier civ with a busted UU so they are plenty good even without a UT, that could be changed into something cool as well to be honest. Not every UT need to be strong, but they Need to be interesting at least.

Incas are not as strong as mongols generally speaking, and all meso civs are designed to have better skirms than average since they lack hussar line in trash fights via the Castle UT, which inca’s fails to do

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Mayans dont need better skirms either with FU skirms and some of the strongest archers and 100 HP eagles, but they have

Meso Castle UT are designed for trash wars to make skirms better then average since they lack scout line entirely, so they absolutely could use better skirms. Those UT came into place in post-post imp in trash wars

Remove Slingers from the Imperial UT, done

So then that’s a nerf to Slingers instead. 11