I had my days of APM with Donkey Kong on Atari, that’s really an age of empires ago.
Debating on competitive game settings in a 20 yeard old game what doesnt even have a decent multiplayer modus in 2018.
You guys crack me up.
Most of this so called experts 2.0 speed cant even tool before 8 minutes with their sloppy economy.
@JosephC64 said:
@EmperorTan89 said:
Any commander must react rapidly with the real time changes in battlefield. That’s RTS.Quick thinking and quick reflexes are not the same thing.
Using your logic, farmers are also strategists because they apply strategy in cultivating their fields. Which is true. In fact, using this logic almost everyone is a strategist, and almost every game is a strategy game. That of course is nonsense. The reason strategy games are called strategy games and not adventure games is because fighting lions and solving puzzles isn’t defining characteristic of these games.
Which leads us back to my point: the more you have to use reflexes, less there is of strategy. That’s pure math.
You may be not like high reflex-required games, but that’s a important factor in RTS game (like you dont like 1.0 as much as 1.5; if only strategy is matter, so please call for 0.5 speed or try other games like Heroes III). RTS means the game is not only “S”- Strategy, but also “RT”- reflexes and action. Both define characteristic of these games. So speed need to make the balance between these two factors.
Right now, for many, 2.0 makes the good balance between strategical mind and reflexes mind, turn this game into a more competitve and spectator-attractive e-sport game. Of course, there’s still group of players love 1.0 and 1.5 speed, but you can not ask the tournament organizers ignoring the needs of majority and following the minority.
@Tom4 said:
Debating on competitive game settings in a 20 yeard old game what doesnt even have a decent multiplayer modus in 2018.You guys crack me up.
Most of this so called experts 2.0 speed cant even tool before 8 minutes with their sloppy economy.
Those who can’t do this can’t be called pros. There’s no expert who can not click tool before 8 min in 2.0, most of times they click tool before 7 min, sometimes even before 6 min. May be you are confusing from “a average player who plays a lot” to “a expert”. Please watch some games before make fun of the elite group.
@EmperorTan89 said:
@Tom4 said:
Debating on competitive game settings in a 20 yeard old game what doesnt even have a decent multiplayer modus in 2018.You guys crack me up.
Most of this so called experts 2.0 speed cant even tool before 8 minutes with their sloppy economy.
Those who can’t do this can’t be called pros. There’s no expert who can not click tool before 8 min in 2.0, actually they usually click tool before 7. May be you are confusing from “a average player who plays a lot” to “a expert”.
He probably meant that those players can’t be in Tool Age before 8 min, and not that they can not start researching Tool Age before 8 min.
In pro games the Tool rushes are happening with 20 villagers (some people do 16 villagers in normal games).
creating 17 villagers takes 5min and 40sec (17*20s) and the Tool Age upgrade takes two minutes (120s), in total it takes 7min and 40s for the perfect Tool Age timing. In the current games they are not playing with Shang so it is normal to have some downtime in villager creation.
@pate623 said:
@EmperorTan89 said:
@Tom4 said:
Debating on competitive game settings in a 20 yeard old game what doesnt even have a decent multiplayer modus in 2018.You guys crack me up.
Most of this so called experts 2.0 speed cant even tool before 8 minutes with their sloppy economy.
Those who can’t do this can’t be called pros. There’s no expert who can not click tool before 8 min in 2.0, actually they usually click tool before 7. May be you are confusing from “a average player who plays a lot” to “a expert”.
He probably meant that those players can’t be in Tool Age before 8 min, and not that they can not start researching Tool Age before 8 min.
In pro games the Tool rushes are happening with 20 villagers (some people do 16 villagers in normal games).
creating 17 villagers takes 5min and 40sec (17*20s) and the Tool Age upgrade takes two minutes (120s), in total it takes 7min and 40s for the perfect Tool Age timing. In the current games they are not playing with Shang so it is normal to have some downtime in villager creation.
He used the word “even” so I think he meant clicking tool , not being done upgraded, because to be in tool age before 8 min is not easy, even for experts. Because they need time to train enough vills for strong economy enough and make woods for, normally, 2 Barracks in a rushing game. So I think under 7 for clicking upgrade is acceptable.
Ik mean reach tool age ofcourse…
But ofcourse IT depends on the map.
I dont want to be mean tot the VC community, because its Nice tot see they still care about this game.
But real experts have been long gone to new, better And other games. The level of gameplay is Just mediocre.
Clicking fast doesnt make You An expert. Everybody with knowledge about hotkeys and practice can be fast.
Making the right decisions and playing out of the box does.
@Tom4 said:
Ik mean reach tool age ofcourse…
But ofcourse IT depends on the map.I dont want to be mean tot the VC community, because its Nice tot see they still care about this game.
But real experts have been long gone to new, better And other games. The level of gameplay is Just mediocre.
Clicking fast doesnt make You An expert. Everybody with knowledge about hotkeys and practice can be fast.
Making the right decisions and playing out of the box does.
reach tool before 8 and you use the word “even”? No one could use that word to a perfect timing, that makes 8min like a bad one. Even in 1.0, that’s awesome to reach tool before 8 with stable economy, much less in 2.0.
No experts right now is the person who only click fast. Of course they’re strategists in this game, too. That’s how they become experts. We are only talking about how to master this game’s gameplay and make it interesting. If you want other gameplay, try other games.
Btw, who’s real experts are you saying about? You say like there was people who have total different level compared to current generation’s pros. That’s must be your imagination.
Basicly everybody left aoe/ror when AoK/ AoC , wc3 came out.
@Tom4 said:
Basicly everybody left aoe/ror when AoK/ AoC , wc3 came out.
I agree. But that’s other story. We are talking about people who you claimed as “real experts”. You said the current experts is not real one, but the reals are some people who left this game long ago and didn’t have chance to face players of this generation? That’s, I could say, you are insulting the current AOE1 community.
The experts of 98-2000 where ofcourse much better because There where always thousands of people playing, and the community was very active with clans, tournaments, and websites.
Also microsoft supported the game bigtime with the zone, weekend tournaments etc.
The pond now is Just smaller, and ‘pro’ gamers gonna play more populair games.
Anyways, its Just the games what i have seen on the VC site show some Nice aoe1 chariot games, but mediocre ror/ De games.
Mind You that aoe 1 is very different then ror/de because of the pop limit and tool rushing VS booming.
Playing fast just makes the game sloppy, and 1 dimensional. But hey, its your party. That is what Nice about aoe. You can play any setting that You want. 2.0, reveal, no tool rushing!! Land maps only.
I Just dont accept de statement experts should be able tot play 2.0.
Its Just another (pinball) game in my opinion and IT makes the game less deep.
@Tom4 said:
The experts of 98-2000 where ofcourse much better because There where always thousands of people playing, and the community was very active with clans, tournaments, and websites.
Also microsoft supported the game bigtime with the zone, weekend tournaments etc.The pond now is Just smaller, and ‘pro’ gamers gonna play more populair games.
Anyways, its Just the games what i have seen on the VC site show some Nice aoe1 chariot games, but mediocre ror/ De games.
Mind You that aoe 1 is very different then ror/de because of the pop limit and tool rushing VS booming.
Playing fast just makes the game sloppy, and 1 dimensional. But hey, its your party. That is what Nice about aoe. You can play any setting that You want. 2.0, reveal, no tool rushing!! Land maps only.
I Just dont accept de statement experts should be able tot play 2.0.
Its Just another (pinball) game in my opinion and IT makes the game less deep.
I dont mind you don like their settings or think older generation are better, but using withering sarcasm for calling them “chariot games” (actually in their games not only chariot but they use all kind of units except axe, boats and slingers) and “mediocre games” or claim firmly that “the experts of 98-2000 is of course much better” is somewhat nonsense, insulting and violating. I dont think a rational person should say such thing, because nothing proves that fact. At least at that time, the community have only about 1 years of experience, but now, pro gamers inherited 20 years of playing that game from the community. So saying 1 year experienced community is much better than 20 years experienced community is really strange. Pro RTS gamer in countries like Vietnam play AOE1 because this game still the most popular RTS game in their country with thousands players playing frequently. No other RTS game has as big prize pool as AOE there. So if they need to earn money, they play AOE1 (earning money from local streaming and advertising, thousands dollars prize pool). Last year in Vietnam-China cup, the winner won a from sponsors nearly 7000 USD (if counted in PPP - purchasing power parity, the amount rise to app. 20k USD).
Playing too fast makes the game sloppy, yes, but 2.0 is not too fast for many. There’re no study about how 2.0 destroy a pro AOE game and “make the game less deep”. This speed still welcomed in free rule with tool rushing so please not to be salty that much. 
“Pinball game”? In speed 10.0, may be yes.
Pros should be able to play in any speed from 1.0 to 2.0. They must play in 2.0 just because the tournaments and many fans require that. They can still easily crush amateurs in 1.5 or 1.0.
@Tom4 said:
The experts of 98-2000 where ofcourse much better because There where always thousands of people playing, and the community was very active with clans, tournaments, and websites.
Also microsoft supported the game bigtime with the zone, weekend tournaments etc.The pond now is Just smaller, and ‘pro’ gamers gonna play more populair games.
Anyways, its Just the games what i have seen on the VC site show some Nice aoe1 chariot games, but mediocre ror/ De games.
Mind You that aoe 1 is very different then ror/de because of the pop limit and tool rushing VS booming.
Playing fast just makes the game sloppy, and 1 dimensional. But hey, its your party. That is what Nice about aoe. You can play any setting that You want. 2.0, reveal, no tool rushing!! Land maps only.
I Just dont accept de statement experts should be able tot play 2.0.
Its Just another (pinball) game in my opinion and IT makes the game less deep.
Hey Tom4, take it easy boy.
I’m from the 98-2000 era and no, unfortunately for your perception, the “pros” of 98-2000 (like maimin matty) were already getting crushed in 2001-2004 by new experts like UnbrokeN, ExiGe, RFR_Gold, Hill_Berries and myself. I belong to that breed of 2001+ competitive AoERoR players.
With said background, and having played hundreds of 1v1 1.0 speed games with the all-time best from zone AoERoR, I can tell you the gameplay of DE brings a different competitivity. Not harder, not easier, just different.
Feel free to share your point of view, but dont let your fond memories of AoERoR give you a misrepresentation of the levels of today’s competitivity, which is just as tough as what what I had during 98-2004.
If you refer to AoE1 usualz, the all-time best are still around, and its just the same as then.
Cheers,
I think just don’t play on random civilization mode. Let get ban/pick.
And play standard maps.
@SheepishSum8288 said:
I think just don’t play on random civilization mode. Let get ban/pick.
And play standard maps.
That’s the good idea about ban/pick civil. For maps, excepts islands map in which nearly only sea fights matter, i’d love to experience any kind of map.
You Just trying to be funny ronsteel. Talking about crushing Matty in 2001. Matty went to work for ensemble to playtest aok, so in this 2001-2004 timeframe for sure hé dont play aoe competitively anymore.
Besides that You Will never ‘crush’ players like this. Its a stupid statement.
You can win, like everybody is beatable on a good/ bad day but a good player Will never crush another good player.
As like Basicly every good player went to aok. So ik not really impressed by the 2001 ratings in a dead game.
The aoe/ ror rooms DIED the Day aok came out. ■■■■, most pro players where already playing beta AoK before IT came out!
Ik know IT really well, because i was sad. I loved ror and hated aok, but the rooms Just died.
@Tom4 said:
You Just trying to be funny ronsteel. Talking about crushing Matty in 2001. Matty went to work for ensemble to playtest aok, so in this 2001-2004 timeframe for sure hé dont play aoe competitively anymore.Besides that You Will never ‘crush’ players like this. Its a stupid statement.
You can win, like everybody is beatable on a good/ bad day but a good player Will never crush another good player.As like Basicly every good player went to aok. So ik not really impressed by the 2001 ratings in a dead game.
The aoe/ ror rooms DIED the Day aok came out. hell, most pro players where already playing beta AoK before IT came out!
Ik know IT really well, because i was sad. I loved ror and hated aok, but the rooms Just died.
Hey boy, you are just blinded by your fond memories. I need NOBODY to tell me stories because I was there. I have been in many 3v3 (with watchers through IP) mediterranean games with maimin matty in, and yes, he lost almost always to other experts like the ones I mentioned and to many others.
You sound like a guy who disappeared after 2001, and mind you, a lot of things happenend during that period, including cash prize tournaments hosted by the community (Http clan, VC clan, DevilZ clan and others).
I’m sorry but you don’t have a point here. The all time best AoE and RoR players are the same ever since, so unfortunately you are just delusional. Under your failed logic, TheViper could never be considered a better AoK player than grunt just because grunt quit in 2004. Your logic is just flawed.
On topic, im 200% confident that guys like Chim Se Di Nang would delete the 1998-1999 players any time. The fact that you are trying to tag today’s level “inferior” to 1999 is just laughable. Gameplay of AoE RoR has evolved a ton since then, and it is unanimously agreed that the best players of all time (msn zone-wise) are the ones I mentioned before:
AoE Usual:
Super0dfx, Exorcist, HoHo and Unbroken. They all play on and off since 1998 until today.
RoR:
Unbroken, RFR Gold, Hill Berries, ExiGe, Mandate and myself. Besides ExiGe and Mandy, we all play since since 1998 until today.
Unless you can bring some other names (which I will sure remember) that can best the ones I mentioned, you lost the point.
Dude, DevilZ went straight to aok and AOC.
You Just making a fool of yourself. Pounding on your Chest like a monkey, claiming to be a big boy in a dead game. In the land of the blind the one-eyed is king.
Its like pwning in quake1 when everybody alrdy moved to quake2 -_-.
@Tom4 said:
Dude, DevilZ went straight to aok and AOC.
You Just making a fool of yourself. Pounding on your Chest like a monkey, claiming to be a big boy in a dead game. In the land of the blind the one-eyed is king.Its like pwning in quake1 when everybody alrdy moved to quake2 -_-.
Lmao
Why are you even in this forum? And no, DevilZ Mantis plays on voobly until now. Grolsch and many others were around until 2002-2003.
You are probably just a hopeless intermediate trying to feel better by accusing others of being “big fish in small pond”.
Good thing here is nobody shares your claims. The all time best I have mentioned ARE the old time best. You clearly cant name nobody, since you are just speaking of this “big mass of players” that only exists in your imagination.
Like I said, you are probably just weak in this game and trying to find comfort in your memories so the guys the beat you now, according to you, are not as good as the guys that beat you then.
Can’t wait for ratings to be introduced.
And no, game is nowhere near “dead”. Only in vietnam there’s at least 10k active players. Go play AOK, you will be a good riddance.
Actually i made the website for DevilZ, so dont try to tell me lies. Grolsch wasnt even good in RoR. Hé And his rl friend aarsvark (l clan kraken) left DevilZ for L clan. They got good with AoC.
@Tom4 said:
Actually i made the website for DevilZ, so dont try to tell me lies. Grolsch wasnt even good in RoR. Hé And his rl friend aarsvark (l clan kraken) left DevilZ for L clan. They got good with AoC.
My point remains. I have been at the top, I am still at the top, and I tell you that today’s level is way higher than 1998. Believe me, after nearly 18 years game has evolved.
And you are just an intermediante trying to neglect reality. Stay in your bubble playing high resources reveal map 1.0 speed. I’ll be hanging with the top guys.