Aoestats has been updated with new civs!

Fortunately among all ELO the balance is pretty fine, but the Burgundian winrate at 1650+ wtf.


Burgundians and Sicilians needs a big dark age buff

Also look at sicilians win rate at +40min, they may have a nerf for the bonus dmg reduction

Malay and Portuguese need some extra love

The rest is mostly fair balance


What did you expect?
All the cries of 2OP, OP, all new civs release OP, will kill the game" were always foolishness.

Burgundians are literally Franks on a timer. If tehy miss their timing pushes, they auto-lose.

how can a civ have an early game 25 % winnig record? I know burgs are bad, but how this is even possible?
Both civs have no early eco. Therfore my opinion:

Sicilians: farms provide +60 % food instead of +100% on upgrades
donjon adjusted to 125 W 125 S but not firing arrows on it’s own, slight hp buff (like 20 %).
serjeants costing 10 F less, but deal no bonus dmg vs eagles and buildings
First Crusade Spawns 5 serjeants per castle and donjon, up to 40.

Burgundians: Eco upgrades cost 25% less and are researched 25% faster
Coustilier: Recharge time reduced by 33 %.
Flemish revolution changed into only converting 50 % of vills into flemish militia
All Stable Technolgies are researched 50 % faster and are available 1 age earlier (also paladin)

This would justy make Sicilians have no Towers, and any Tower Rush would insta-kill them.

There is no way anyone will ever be fast enough to make Archers and Donjons, or put Vills in Donjons to dellay their own Economy.

Castle Age Paladin or Hussar, would break all balance.


against a tower rush you will garrison the donjon, it’s better than the actual version of the donjon as the initial projectile has no bonus damage vs buildings :wink:

Paladin might be a bit strong, but they heve no bloodlines and it is still quite expensive. Hussar without bloodlines is not really much better than lightcav.

Bad idea, as it will just dellay your Economy, so you are handing down a win to your opponent.

Its the standard defence vs a tower rush to garrison your defensive tower. It damages the enemy tower and restricts the movement of the enemy vills much more.

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A standard Tower does not cost 125 Wood, and actually has an attack that Vills can stack on. Vills on buildings always give very low damage.

No, garrisoned vills do bonus damage vs buildings and actually more than garrisoned archers without upgrades. Secondary projs of towers do 5 extra damage for a total of 6. So a tower on it’s own only makes 1 d/ 2 s but one garrisoned with 4 vills does 25 D / 2 s. The same is for a donjon.

The proposal I do is actually a buff for a donjon vs tower rushes. But a nerf for the common donjon rush without ranged assistance. So to make the donjon rush work then you have to bring archers along with them.

A donjon already has 40 % more hp, I think it’s ok it is a bit more expensive (in wood) than a tower.

I just got one more interesting idea for donjons: They could be able to garrison scorpions, this would allow sicilians a good comp which could be completely garrisoned into the donjon. The Scorpions could raise the dps of the donjon while garrisoned.

As Sicilians have no other ranged options, the ability to garrison the vulnerable and slow scorpions could help them a lot.

Tatars have a 100% winrate on Team Islands at 1650+… In 1v1.

Remember that stats will tell you a lot of things but you need to seek context for yourself.

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Maybe some players just insta resigned with burgs or tried cheeky strats like too early eco upgrades with them and lost to fc agression. Could explain that insane early losing record.

Or maybe a civ that is on a timer that doesn’t have the eco to let them take advantage of that timer is going to be seriously subpar.

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Look at the stats, most of their losing record comes from their terrible under 20 min rate of 26 %. No other civ comes even close to that. And there are also several civs which have almost nothing helping them until castle age aswell. They should have the same record.
It’s something odd going on with that early game losing rec of burgs.

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I don’t know, I get the feeling that most of the civ design actually hurts the burgs… if you use the eco techs one age early is super expensive, if you try flemish revolution you lose your vills, no BL so your cav fall behind… the only good one is vineyards and to some point the early cavalier.

I dont know about about sicilians but this is what I would like for burgs:

-Replace the early eco techs bonus and change it to vills gather ALL resources 5% faster (it could be a little more or a little less)

-Give them BL, remove castle age cavallier, reduce the stable discount from 50% to 33%, maybe reduce costellier hp to compensate (optional)

-Modify flemish revolution, just make F pikemen avaible from TC and give a minor armor bonus (+1/1) for barrack units

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This one overlap with both Teuton and Malian bonus

What about changing the bonus from "Cavalier upgrade available in Castle Age" to "Cavalier upgrade available in Castle Age, but Bloodlines only available in Imperial Age"? I agree it’s weird for them to not have bloodlines, but i also think it’s unique and interesting for them to have Cavaliers on Castle age… So with my idea i think this specific problem would atleast be solved. I know it may be a little weird to have a “debuff” in a bonus, but it’s not like this would be a first… just look at the Hun’s no house bonus or Chinese Extra starting villager bonus, both take some of the starting resources as compensartion and are examples of bonuses that have a negative aspect to them.


Please buff portuguese

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Awesome! I thought this website was dead. So glad it’s back!

Aoe stats still doesn’t include confidece intervals thought.

Without that we have no way of telling which stats are actually meaningful. Like map specofic winrstes or civ matchups. Or how different elo winrates are by chance or have enoigh data.

It was OK in the past, there was no alternative around. But with the introduction of the analysis of that reddit dude which actually did include confidence intervals, aoestats feels rather obsolete.

I hope the guy behind aoestats can coop with that other guy from reddit.!