三代也不像歷史正確啊。日本的騎兵怎麼就比中國的素質好了？只是洋人習慣日本的文化輸出，把日本定位成精英兵的形象而已。
AOE3上市時，遊戲的背景設定是從大發現開始，英國還有長弓兵。DE則是一群三K(直接講還被河蟹）把背景拉到近代。美國、墨西哥時代2就拿來福槍到處揍人，時代4開鐵甲艦。歐洲的更新也在強化近代，所以英國那個突兀的長弓兵也被換成ranger。
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TAD时期亚洲可用的单位就远比任何欧洲国家和美洲国家多了，现在也只是把欧洲勉强补到这个水平。
你要说美洲国家需要补充内容我同意，亚洲三国在DE前一直都是独特单位和机制最丰富的，专属佣兵，最多的独特英雄技能，奇观，量产欧洲单位（有些欧洲国家自己都不能量产），而TAD没有给其他国家任何新东西。
至于pvp平衡性，以及茶叶利用率差的问题，这都是后面可以调整的，和设计上的丰富性没有关系。设计上亚洲国家的内容量只比DE后加的美国墨西哥及非洲国家少，但远高于欧洲和美洲。最近补充欧洲也就是把TAD开始拉开的缺口勉强补上而已。
EDIT：但我不是说TAD的亚洲三国设计得很好，反而我觉得TAD是一个极差的资料片，新文明硬塞了太多花哨但没有任何设计感的内容（尤其是领事馆），平衡性崩坏，还有宗教原住民这种自己给自己设置限制的设定，而且对新文明之外的游戏本体没有任何新内容（想想TWC给欧洲国家加了多少新东西）。如果亚洲国家想达到DE后的设计水平，不是像欧洲国家那样补几张卡的问题（因为欧洲是标准模板），而需要整个推倒重做，这个工作量相当大，而且很可能吃力不讨好。
3 Likes
However I think dev looks have willing to renew these vanilla euro civs prior than TWC and TAD civs.
For me it is ok because vanilla euro civs are mostly standard frame except Russia and Otto (Otto got renew too).
However for balance is very bad dev are keep on adding something OP into the game, I don’t know they want grimmick want to attract people to use or something else, meanwhile TWC and TAD don’t get any new OP stuff but mostly were nerf. This makes the balance gap very very large. (If anyone remember I was always talking Japan was OP but now I have nothing to say because new stuff are much OP than that).
Moreover talking in Chinese may not call attention from others or dev , as Ausmht said some people dislike China (no matter in game or reality) would just come to mess up the discussion while Chinese is not prefer communication language here.
TWC and TAD already had a round of renewal before KoTM. Not much for Indians and Japanese because they were solid.
This update route just goes in cycles. At some point a few civs got more “advanced” than the others then the later ones not only caught up but also surpassed them.
I think the last few updates have pushed all civs to a similar level in terms of “modernity” of design so then one can really start to think about minor balance tweaks. With a huge gap of contents and options it is more difficult to talk about balancing (eg Swedes once got nerfed into oblivion with a single cut in their starts, buried with all its broken designs and wide options, which all then re-emerged when the eco is back to normal).
I actually prefer they keep on with this current content level. If there is a new civ it should not be another TAD/US/Mexican/African level of content creep (compared to the time when they got released of course) then trigger another cycle of updating this and updating that, but in line with the current “balancing” of contents. And for general updates do a small one for all, not a big one for some this patch and another big one for some others next patch.
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My biggest concern is that, for lakota and haude, the design is really tight. They do their job very well, going aggresive early and then tapering off and having solid units that cant easily be reamassed instead of solid eco. Its a great design. However, De meta is far more passive into late game grinds which native civs weren’t designed to do. It makes changes hard as give them late game eco their units way to strong, early game too strong. So youd have to kill the units scaling or ability to rush for balance if you strong buff kate game. Also if DE meta changes to less op late game, with 0 changes NA natives become strong again. Looks at how aztecs get shredded patch after patch due to how “op” they were with buffs to plaza or age4 stuff. So we either accept debuff late game or have to trade strength early to late making civ less specialised and unique.
I think the questions for at least NA civs, is- do we just kill existing identity to be s tier? What can be added without disrupting the existing design of early aggresion into map control or contain then a decent boom into strong units over eco? Does a change help the civ long term or only solves other unbalanced issues? Do we redesign the civ angering those who love it now to please maybe others to play it? I think this is not an easy conundrum for any devs to solve and ia hard to dial to right spot.
Personally i love these civs and feel like new other civ OP stuff needs major balance change. So NA native civs get more minor tweaks to cards for team or treaty for me is ideal. Im ok not playing s tier FotM civ if its fun and rewarding. How to reward early aggression in DE passive meta will be tricky, but i dont mind challenges and enjoy the feel of these civs, and if i want to play de passive well theres plenty of that. I agree some small changes and QoL could be used (like haude wood gathering late game, or to mass kanya, lakota boom coin after mines go, alliance age3 cards mostly suck a$$ etc) but Id rather not give up the engaging WC mechanics, shipments of age2 -3 just to be reskinned euro civ. My 2 cents
5 Likes
Japanese warriors are highly overrated thanks to the myth of katanas and Japanese martial arts. That is why in TAD they decided to create the hatamoto as the most powerful melee infantry unit and the shogun as the most powerful unit in the entire game.
Tbh i dont want every civ to be upgraded as fancy as new civs. The game will be a mess. All civs should be designed like vanilla
2 Likes
Eh, kinda disagree. I still feel like some civs like Ports, Aztec, Russians and British aren’t really at the same level as the other civs in terms of content.
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Roughly. But at least there is no need for general major updates like last November.
I think the infinite resource crates in age4 are essentially some of the best cards around that you can spam. Combined with baby dance they are as good as infinite unit shipments, except they allow you to choose what unit to ship in any combination.
I think the primary issue hauds are not so popular is because their eco requires a lot of micro, especially being forced to lifestock boom in age4. Unfortunately i don’t see how this can be changed, and I personally like that there’s at least one civ that can lifestock boom reliability in age4.
Make Haud strength return TAD period absolutely they will be popular again.
sorry but we don’t play the same game, you don’t do the baby dance and you don’t cow boom in sup
It is not cow, it is sheep boom and it only makes sense in industrial age 
Have you tried micro-ing baby dance? it is very powerful in supremacy:
Army out of position: np, spawn a new one at home with baby dance.
Wanna boom tthe extra food on vilagers very fast? baby dance. In fact, my favorite greedy boom with native civs is baby dance off 2 TCs.
Wanna pressure your opponent after you just lost your army? baby dance.
Sure, you just keep the dance for as long as it makes sense, and then switch to gift or damage ceremony when no longer needed. High micro requirements yes, but very effective.
Sí,yo pienso que eventualmente tocarán Asia sí o sí…
Yes, I think they will no longer put civs as strong as until now…If they put the Persians they will be like the Indians and if they put the Koreans they will be like the Maltese…
You are really teaching Kevin how to use Haud, adore.
1 Like
Haud has one of the best skirm in the game with a great rush and FF tempo, haud units are one of the strongest in the fortress age, haud fast industrial strategies are borderline balance concern in certain Match ups and the civilization is in a very decent spot, water booming is still very viable, doesn’t need any buff at all but potentially a change to it’s over performing FI.
Sí,igual no le doy bola a eso…faltan más dlcs por delante así,que siempre puede haber cambios en el futuro…
before you start to say haud broken borderline balance concern or smth, we talk in team 3v3 mostly, now if you think haud is absolutely broken in 3v3, ok
2 Likes
I still wondering how come such as strong civs for competitive (you didn’t mention I assume is 1v1 competitive), with lowest pickrate, sometimes very low winrate too.
No matter we should follow pickrate more as Hazza said or we concentrate on winrate, this civs can’t show any OP in current status.
However do you think Haud is strong too in team game? as I mention team game balance and never talked about competition because I am not a competitive player. Why I mentioned natives civs are weak because in team game close to none of people are willing to use them, this is very boring every game are only those OP civs, that is meaningless to create so many civs due to people are only use those several OP civs in team game.
Also I remember met you several times in team game rank and no one of your team is using natives civs. Sure I don’t have same skill as you and you have much higher elo than me I don’t know why I can match you but this is what I saw.
Last, I am not denying what you said because you are competitive level, but can you care more not competitive players? if you think buff the civs will make it OP in competitive, just compensate with other nerfs.
Haud in team is one of the worst civ, lacking so many upgrades, slow training and travois can be snared by before reaching to forward base, haud was the best civilization in 1v1 during the legacy game competitive fan patch which DE changes come from, and it only received explorer crackshot cooldown change with some increase to dock build time, it’s still around A tier, rushing to haud is not possible, haud ff is one of the best, haud FI can’t be punished by civs like china dutch port malta, which makes it very one sided MU. I have answered by mentioning to the main post which was about 1v1, team is different