The Germans civ represents the Holy Roman Empire, while revolting to Prussia mirrors how Prussia rose to challenge from the inside of the empire and eventually defeat the Habsburgs (Austria), who led the HRE. Then, revolting to the German Confederation reflects Prussia’s attempt to unify the German nation under its leadership.
That’s how I interpret it, at least. I think this is actually a pretty good solution. Currently, if players want to represent Austria instead, they can simply play the German civ without revolting to Prussia.
Still, adding Austria as another revolt option for Germans could be possible, and it would definitely make the choice between the routes even clearer. So the options would be Argentina, Gran Colombia (bring it back!), Prussia, Hungary, and Austria, and maybe you can still revolt to Hungary or German Confederation after you have already revolted to Austria. Then, maybe let German Confederation can also directly available for the Germans without Prussia or Austria, replacing Argentina.
I understand this interpretation, and from a historical narrative perspective it is not unreasonable. The German civilization can be seen as representing the Holy Roman Empire, with Prussia rising from within the Empire, challenging Habsburg Austria, and eventually leading German unification.
However, the problem is that the actual game content has not really balanced the representation of Austria and Prussia.
Most of the major German additions in the Definitive Edition have pushed the civilization in a very Prussian direction. For example, the Needle Gun Infantry and Prussian Uhlans are clearly Prussian elements. Even the Crossbowman modernization card provides a unit that is strongly associated with Prussian military traditions rather than Austria.
In reality, almost none of the Definitive Edition additions have added genuine Austrian elements. The only possible exception is the Elector system, but the Electors represent the wider Holy Roman Empire rather than a dedicated Austrian path. Even if a player chooses an Austrian-related Elector, it does not provide a real Habsburg identity or Austrian-specific gameplay.
The strange part is that you can choose Austria as your historical interpretation, but your barracks units still carry Prussian names, and you can even eventually revolt into Prussia.
So the issue is not that Germany cannot represent Austria. The issue is that the actual design has gradually become much more focused on Prussia. If Austria is meant to have a meaningful presence in the game, simply existing as a possible interpretation of Germany is probably no longer enough.
Ironically, people used to complain about the exact opposite: the German civ lacked a strong Prussian identity. Back then, many felt that the most designs of Germans was essentially Austria in disguise. So when people asked for a new German civ, what they really wanted was a Prussian civ, not an Austrian one.
Now that Prussian elements have been added to the civ that much, I think it reflects the effort to make the civ represent the various German powers, rather than focusing on just one. Of course, there’s still room for improvement in the implementation, and it would also be nice to give Austrian elements a bit more emphasis, but I don’t think splitting the Germans into separate civs is necessary. It wasn’t necessary before, and it seems even less necessary now.
I wholehearthely agree with your point of view. AOE3 Germany has always being problematic since it tries to depict everything and thus it represents nothing. However, and as much as I’m historically biased towards the Habsburg monarchy, and much more towards the pre WW1 Austro Hungarian empire, there’s a very big can of worms that we must adress before a serious attempt at depicting the Danubian Empire: what period does the game even represent?
I think the most crystal clear case is Spain with their focus on the era of exploration and the conquest of the new world, which is very similar to Portugal, with the Netherlands its focus is in their golden Age, which is almost the same time period, but then you have the English which their focus is clearly the pre-USA independence albeit with longbowmen…and finally we arribe to “Germany”, with clear alussions to the 30 year war with ther Zweihänder infantry and Wallenstein contracts but with Hussite war wagons, almost 100 years prior, and Neddle gun riflemen , almost 200 years latter and, as a cherry on top, their economy revolves around germantown farmers, an exclusively colonial USA phenomenon.
I think that the only option that adresses this issue satisfactory would be reworking current Germany into two distinct civs, the Prussian/Teutonic knights and the Holy Roman Empire. I won’t throw my hat into the ring to make a full design out of them, but the HRE could be built around transitioning from the 30 years war into the Napoleonic era and finally into the age of Imperialism while the Prussian theme could be militarism. -A quick idea is that austrians gain acess to current habsburg Line Infantry instead of the musketeer on ages III or IV instead of II, forcing them to play archaic in the early game, while Prussians got fusiliers as standard musketeers by default along with teutonic knights by age II.
Eh, I think it’s too late in the day for a Prussian main civ.
If this was the original AoE3 release and they decided to add a very distinctive Austria and a Prussia, which played entirely different, then fine (though you’d get people complaining that there are plenty of other worth German states than Prussia!), but here we are now - a very full and distinctive Euro roster that is still sooooo much bigger than the other region civs, It would actually seem a ‘waste’ that we’d get another German civ than something more exotic now, surely?
While I understand the logic behind your argument I think this is an upside down way to looking at the issue: We shouldn’t neuter one of the key players of the literal, historical, Age of Empires only because dev won’t add more non-european factions, we should campaing for more non-european factions ALONGSIDE of independent Austria/HRE and Prussia/Teutonic.
That is never going to happen. We just had 18 months of silence and then THE big comeback of this game, if there was ever a german civ split this was the opportunity for it. Devs clearly decided teutons & prussians are revolutions and if there are plans for austro-hungary, they will follow this precedent.
You’re being a bit optimistic in assuming a more exotic civ is even on the table. The track record is crap like Mexico and Malta. If you can shoehorn in those civs decades later than Prussia is a far easier pill to swallow. And if the actual options for new civs are something like Brazil, Montenegro, or Prussia then Prussia looks pretty good. Even if more exotic stuff is realistic I still wouldn’t call Prussia a waste as it would finally complete Europe and stop Germany from being a Frankenstein civ. That could even pave the way for a subsequent India split and “exotic” civs of that region.
I am, I admit being harsh saying Prussia would be a waste, as I do not mean it, however in the grand scheme of things, seeing less Euro-centric civs would be more interesting with new architecture, completely new unit rosters and even new regional mechanics.
You do make a good point about Malta and Mexico - if recycled asset Civs such as those (although I do acknowledge that did have a number of unique units/models), especially with their relevance in the world is considered, then yeah Prussia does look like a good option, if the scope/resources only allow civs on that level, though as someone who cares not Fed/Post Colonial Civs, I’d still take Brazil over Prussia just for something marginally more interesting.
I’d also consider that if there were a separate Prussian Civ ( I can’t see another multiple euro Civ DLC as we’re scrapping the barrel for Euro civs with with big impact), in the broad perspective it’s just another German-speaking, same architecture, Euro Civ, which after the upcoming Danes and Poles will seem fairly tepid.
An HRE Civ that can diverge early on to a particular, prominent German state can work, though it’s very clunky at the moment with this whole revolution business.
Of course, the reality comes down to whether this upcoming DLC gives green lights for substantial new DLC developments in the future, or just enough resource and a go ahead for smaller scale ‘shoehorned’ Civs that makes use of the same infrastructure/assets, with new content as the minority element. Or, no future DLC at all
Yes, now they should turn to Asia…it’s incredible that we have “almost” complete Europe (only Switzerland, Serbia, and Greece are missing) and from Asia only the great empires of East and South Asia (China, Japan, and India)…what about everything in between?..
I don’t see the appeal to Brazil at all. It seems like it’s only suggested because it’s the non-Spanish option. The only post-colonials I see as potentially more interesting than Prussia are Gran Colombia and Haiti because of how much of a clusterfuck they were.
Yeah directly following up the Baltic Powers with… another Baltic power would be really dumb. But a couple expansions down the line it wouldn’t be so bad. And releasing it as a standalone federal states type civ would be in line with USA/Mexico. If it were a just another generic Euro civ I’d say don’t even bother.
Yes, a Caribbean DLC… Gran Colombia based on Bolivar and Haiti based on the Pirate Republic (because of Tortuga Island) and obviously the Haitian Revolution and the kingdom, and then, the Haitian Empire…
You need to separate Haiti from the equation - it didn’t even exist as country. Also Tortuga and the Buccaneers were fairly distinct and happened before the pirate Republic.
Haiti based entirely on revolutionary/post colonial Haiti (not a sniff of pirate republic) would be far better. Essentially guerilla jungle warfare (stealth, poison, sabotage) and Euro (French) style line infantry and cavalry would be an interesting combination.
Yeah, it wouldn’t sound like a bad civilization if it had all that… Pirates, Buccaneers, Maroons, French slaves in revolt, even zombies (because of the voodoo theme)…
They’re not going to divide the Indians…that would be all we’d be left with…
