It’s not just “less accurate”, it’s seriously gimping yourself to use it right at the start. First it won’t do any effort to find your boars sheeps, will camp in a random corner of the map, and then maybe it will feel like suiciding on your opponent’s TC. And during all this time it spent half its time walking in explored areas.
read again what i wrote, i’m talking about the starting scout. Losing the starting scout is worse than losing another scout, which was not the case before and is a very weird mechanic
That has been pointed out before that having a unit with an extra ability that can’t be replicated goes against the idea of Age of Empires. I’ve always viewed each unit (except the King) as disposable, but not you have a unit that is completely unique.
Q. How does auto-scouting change the way you play the game? Please explain.
A. Changes it for the better. I appreciate not having to micro the scout early in game (first 5 or 10 minutes). It never took much time to scout, and the new shift-right mouse button enhancements helped make it easier/funner to do… but not having to worry about putting flags randomly around the map is nice and lets us focus on more important things.
Q. Would you consider auto-scouting “useful” given your skill level? Why or why not?
A. Yes. I, personally, don’t need auto-scouting, as I scout pretty quickly on my own, no problem. But it is very useful because the task of manually scouting isn’t my favorite thing to do in the world. I’ve played AoE for years and didn’t even know auto-scouting was being discussed, but it’s great it was added. I also know some players who struggle with scouting (devs can PM me if they want to know more), so I’m happy that this is one thing that will help them enjoy the game and keep up with the AI or opponents in the earliest part of the game.
Q. Could you tell if your human opponents were using auto-scouting? How did it change the flow of the match?
A. I haven’t played human opponents yet; only had a human teammate. Regardless, I likely wouldn’t be able to tell… unless there were some weird glitches with it or used the exact same pathing every single time.
Q. Did you encounter any issues with the feature?
A. No, none that I noticed. Worked well for me so far.
SUGGESTION for auto-scouting…
- I think it should only be available in the Dark Age, and timed to only last 5 or 10 minutes at the start of the game. Reasons include what was mentioned above – some people like to eventually sneak to behind the opponent, or off on the side of the map, or a distant corner… plus just doing military advancements, in general. I feel the opponent should have to fend for themselves at some point, and not have their hand held with auto-scouting the entire match… getting to see enemy movements, home improvements, and positions without doing any work.
- With my suggestion, the scout will have had time to serve it’s initial purpose of scouting resources in the starting TC area, find some sheep, and maybe tried to find some enemy locations. But that should be it. At some point, the player should have to take ownership of their scouting. And if they get lazy with scouting, then they should pay the price with enemy surprises. That only seems fair. And helps keep many strategies open, available, and viable; and might help keep separate the great players from the good.
PS: For future polls, if you number the questions, we won’t have as great of desire to copy/paste the original questions before answering. We could just number our responses (1), (2), (3), and (4). Just a suggestion! 
Thanks for implementing auto-scout and several other Quality of Life improvements in AoE2:DE!
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So after experimenting some more with auto-scouting I’m finding it not that useful. For some reason the scout moves to some random location (across some already explored map. After I stop manual control “g” and start auto-scout “f”. After I see that the scouts is wasting time by going over revealed territory, I have switched back to manual control with way points scouting what I want instead. I just expected the scout to begin with the closest Unrevealed territory when I issue the command… not sure if this feature is 100% yet. It still would be fine late late game maybe… oh and it’s definitely useful vs the AI but the feature need to find immediately adjacent unexplored territories when executed to be good enough for competitive play
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That’s an interesting idea. My general movement pattern is
- Select Scout.
- Right click to move.
- Go away to do other things.
- Return to Scout.
If I add “start auto-scouting” between when I right click to move the Scout and when I turn my attention away from the Scout, I would need to test whether the Scout follows to the end of its current waypoint before beginning to auto-scout. If it does, then this might be “useful”, as long as the Scout doesn’t run too far away before I’m able to switch back to it. But I think it could be a poor habit to develop, as if you start auto-scouting when near an enemy base, then need to switch away for a few seconds, the Scout might run under a TC or go somewhere you don’t want it to.
Would be interesting to have some kind of “Scout idle time per skill level” measurement. Maybe the rec database could get something like this.
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I still think that there’s another solution besides banning from ranked games: make auto-scouting only work for the dark age.
Thank you for considering what I said. It may be worth testing that out!
Because that’s what I’m going to experiment with. Scouting as normal but before I switch back to my TC I hit the autoscout hotkey just to prevent any idleness if I’m not always fast enough to return to scout.
And, yes, it would indeed be interesting to have an idle scout measurement at all skill levels. Maybe even some sort of mod that counted the microseconds that your initial scout is idle for! As, indeed, whilst the pros rarely have any idle scout at all… it does happen. I’ve seen even Viper leave his scout idle for like 1 second very rarely.
I also think that a mod that counted the microseconds that your initial scout has been idle for would be a helpful beginner’s tool. And rather than give the newbies something as awful as automoatic villager production: give them a mod that counts the microseconds of when their TC is idle … to better teach them to keep it active. True, often they’re just too slow but there’s also a lot of forgetfulness. There are so many super low players I['ve coached in the past that DIDN’T REALIZE that their TC was idle a lot more than they thought it was. And I was the same when I was at a super low level. I think such mods would be helpful.
I think they’d be more useful, for example, than big explanation marks that just show you that you have an idle vill. It’s often not hard to see a vill idle anyway when you’re looking at it. Idle TC and idle scout would be more useful to have a measure when it comes to improving past the low level, IMO.
By the way, I think it should count the seconds and minutes as well as the microseconds, of course. I think such a tool should work like a stopwatch. And this would be a tool that taught you things and MONITORED your play–rather than playing for you.
I’d create the mods myself but unfortunately I don’t know how to create mods.
You are talking about all these other games that had this features and saying how fun they are … but AoE2 is a much better game than all of them, and it is a better game than its sequels even when its sequels had some of those features such as stacked queueing (AoE3) and auto-queueing (AoT).
Like I said, RTS died when classic RTS died. RTS is getting reborn because classic RTS is being brought back. Now, SOME of it is outdated and we could do with some QOL features to modernize it, and we’ve already gotten plenty that are useful. But there is a step too far and that step is any step that makes it no longer a definitive edition of a classic-style RTS and instead turns it into more like subsequent RTSes that were far worse games LARGELY due to their lack of classic rts gameplay mechanics. My point, that I keep having to repeat, that this game is a definitive edition and not an overhauled edition, is a valid and very pertinent one.
The popularity of AoE2 isn’t the only example of classic-style RTS keeping the RTS genre alive whilst non-classic style RTSes continue to fail. Starcraft 2 is another example. It came out in 2010 (again, not 1998, that was the original) and yet whilst having some quality of life features it is largely classic-style still, requires a high APM to play well and certainly doesn’t have or require auto-queue.
I don’t care how many times you say that the word ‘strategy’ is the most important word in the acronym Real Time Strategy. I will continue to point out that the real-time aspect is literally half of the game and that if you take away the high APM requirement for the game to be played at the high level then you’re calling for this game to be turned this into a casual ‘Grand Strategy’ style strategy game like the Paradox Interactive games. Next thing you’ll be saying “Hey, it’s still not turn-based” but allowing infinite pauses with the space bar at a competitive level so players have time to stop and think. If you take the APM out of the game too much then it may not officially be turn-based but it effectively is.
Yes, I get it, many players are faster than others and it may be disheartening for some players that they are losing multiplayer games for low APM reasons rather than for strategical reasons … but then, in that case, RTS is simply the wrong genre for them because, whether you like it or not, the APM requirement and the real time requirement is half of the game.
The point of a classic-style RTS is not simply to have a strategy game that isn’t turn based. It’s to have a strategy game that requires strategical decision making under the pressure of real time factors that often require a high speed when played at a high level.
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Actually might be the best reply I’ve seen on this thread. This is on point, I don’t think I would have anything to add.
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Thank you very much I’m simplybeourselves over on AoEzone, by the way.
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But they wouldn’t have an advantage for keeping that scout alive if the feature didn’t work in the feudal age onwards. And it wouldn’t punish the player extra hard for losing the scout to the enemy TC either: because it would only work for the dark age.
I think that’s a better solution: to allow it in ranked but only allow it to work for the dark age. That way low level players can still matchmake with other players that are low level in ranked and they can use auto-scouting until they get a better dark age … but the auto-scouting feature wont’ be able to abused in Feudal onwards at any level of play.
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Good to read wise opinions like yours. You understand the deep concept of this game, unlike some people that only try to noobify this game and redesign its core uniqueness.
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I would love to have this implemented
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I also want to add, that you dont need to be crazy fast in AoE2 to get to a decent lvl. Just look at Jonslow on twtich for example. Some ppl just watch Viper or Hera and think thats what it takes to get good. In my humble opinion if you know strategies and decision making well (this includes how to spent attention for me) you can get away with a very minimal amount of tasks. Ive seen players get quite far with only using mouse for example.
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You make some interesting points, but I don’t think you are right. The loss of ‘classic RTS’ games is not what killed RTS games. There are 3 reasons why RTS games died.
- A glut in the market.
- The cost of RTS ramped up significantly with the rise of 3d Engines.
- The Rise of Competition of similar game types.
Lets look at why you are wrong first. If we look at the history of RTS games, we see that it starts out with Herzog Zwei, but more formally created with Dune 2. During this time time, we see a glut in the market. The 1990s came out with Command and Conquer, Age of Empires, KKND 1 and 2, Dark Reign, Total Annihilation, Starcraft and Warcraft, Earth 2140, Myth and Myth 2, NetSTorm, Seven Kingdoms, War Wind and War Wind 2, Dominion: Storm Over Gift 3, Dune 2000, and others. Most came out around the same time as Age of Empires. All competed for the same or similar audience. All of these could be seen as ‘classic’ RTS games.
You built bases and forces, and you made war on your enemy.
Economics was not always of equal importance (Games like Total Annihilation was based on constant ticks of energy and mass, and you would use up these resources as you built things, while Dune 2 and Command and Conquer had only a single resource).
But even after this, the RTS genre continued into 2000 with more and more interesting games. After Age of Empires 2, we had Age of Mythology and Age of Empires 3, which didn’t rise to the same popularity of Age of Empire 2 did for a variate of reason (although your Youtuber argued it was auto queueing, he also went into how unbalanced certain factions were, and missed the point that unbalanced gameplay was a way bigger factor in AoM demise then any QoL changes), but other games did surpass Age of Empires. Homeworld and Homeworld broke the mold in 2 ways, both in setting the game in a completely 3rd environment and having your forces stay with you throughout the campaign. Relic came out with the popular Dawn of War Series, which did away with resources and villagers completely. Company of Heroes 1 and 2 did the same, and Company of Heroes 2 has even had annual tournaments with decently large prize pools. All of them did away with resource management completely, which should have seen them fail, but instead, they continue onward, while more traditional RTS games started to fail. Games like Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds, Lords of Everquest, Spellforce 1, 2 and 3 and Dungeons and Dragons: Dragonshard
With classic RTS failing in 2000, but more unique ones sticking around, I don’t think your thesis that the loss of Classic RTS games causes the fall of RTS game. We see popular unconventional RTS games take on a roll of there own after Age of Empires 2.
So, what did cause the fall of RTS games?
As I stated, 3 things caused the fall of RTS Games.
The first is a glut in the market. Look at the number of RTS games that came out quickly sprung up. And RTS games were never cheap to make. So, the supply of games grew a lot more quickly than the audience and became unsustainable.
Again, you had flops like Dungeons and Dragons: Dragonshards, but also games like Dawn of War, Company of Heroes, Sins of a Solar Empire, Anno, Halo Wars, Starcraft 2 and Warcraft 3. Smaller developers had to shut down because it was unsustainable.
- The change in technology was probably the biggest. The early 2000s saw the rise of 3rd technology, and it was often hugely expansive and in many cases uglies.
In some cases, it didn’t make a difference. Boxy units were fine for Sci-Fi games like Homeworld of Conquest Frontier Wars, that used less organic shapes, but games like Age of Mythology looked a lot less pretty than then Age of Empires 2. Dark Reign 2 looked ugly compared to Dark Reign 1.
3d Models were hard to make look good on the primitive computers of the early 2000s, and you had a lot of limitations, like the number of units you could render.
This wouldn’t last, as 3rd games started to look better. Dawn of War 2 and Company of Heroes 1 and 2 units look great. Sins of the Solar Empire is a pretty game. Star Wars came out with the Star Wars: Empire at War, a more attractive game than Star Wars Battleground. It still made games incredible expansive though, so smaller developers were left out. Now each game was a huge cost.
- The third factor is competition from similar games. Not just the obvious ones, like MOBA but also the Rise of TBS games with RTS battles. Total War scratched an itch for a lot of RTS players. Now you could build your base on your own terms, and battle in real-time. No more APM wasted on putting villagers to work.
It goes further, even now, Total War: Warhammer has a huge audience for just the battles. Real-Time Tactics games have always been a huge competitor for classic RTS games. From Myth to Battlezone to Warhammer, the idea of battling without eco is very enticing to some and overlaps strongly with classic RTS enthusiasts.
These three features are why classic RTS games and RTS games in general died out. Not because of new QoL features or Auto Queueing. Auto Queueing didn’t kill Age of Mythology, and it wouldn’t be the reason that Age of Empires 2 dies either.
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Intermediate player here, the feature works as intended. I’ve noticed no change in gameplay whatsoever because of it, just some really mild quality of life upgrade. I personally don’t use it much, since manual scouting in Dark Age is just flat out better and I can do it. For people that cannot yet do that, auto-scouting is massive and will help them manage early economy somewhat better until they take over early scouting themselves too. I do however use auto-scouting in Castle Age to explore the rest of the map if my scout’s still alive and I don’t happen to need it to be somewhere specific.
There’s honestly no reason for all this rioting going on about it. If you don’t want to use it, don’t click on it. Exactly the same as auto-farm queuing. The non argument that auto-scouting counters chances to sneak the opponent is completely false logically. Scouting in general does that whether you use auto-scouting or not. Absolutely zero difference whatsoever.
To help some people understand this extremely complex concept, here’s a fact. I would never intentionally idle my scout. Period. The fact I might occasionally is only due to needing to micro 5 places at a time. Auto-scouting comes to solve the major micromanagement issue in this game which is having to place 50 waypoint on the minimap to just scout. Those are random waypoints. Auto-scout does exactly that, just in one click. No skill to any of these actions. Either you remember to set 50 random waypoints or remember to click on auto-scouting, you’re equally good/bad at the game. The difference is that auto-scouting doesn’t waste your precious time in performing a completely mindless and skill-less action (much like going back to reseed farms once was). Nothing more, nothing less. Hate to tell you Santa ain’t real but your sneaks spotted by random manually placed waypoints is no different to your sneaks spotted by random AI placed waypoints, whether you like it or not. Hurtful truth is hurtful.
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Yeah, I meant it requires a high APM to play at a high level in the sense that it’s certainly a big part of the game. But yes, agreed, compared to lots of other RTSes, such as Starcraft, you don’t have to be that fast at all.
Maybe to be #1 in the world you do. (TheViper would still be a top player but probably not #1 if he was as slow as JonSlow).
But if it ALREADY doesn’t require that high of an APM, compared to some other RTSes, then to make it require even less the game will just become slow and boring and you won’t have to decide how to divide your attention as much at all.
To be able to be a top level player without a high APM it will at least require knowing how to divide your attention/where in the game to spend your time … but if you have stuff like Autoqueue implemented then the macromanagement will disappear and the game will turn into a microfest … and ironically the people who want to implement stuff like autoqueue want to avoid microfests … so their whole argument is actually completely self-defeating.
And for those who really just want to turn AoE2 into a microfest and eliminate macro … they may as well go and play LoL or Dota instead.
So, to put it mildly: Some people want to implement autoqueue in order to INcrease strategical decision making … but what it would actually do, ironically, is DEcrease strategical decision making.
In summary: A true RTS requires a combination of macro and micro and not just one or the other. Not enough quality of life features makes the game feel outdated and awkward to play but too many quality of life features makes the game one dimensional by removing the fine balance of micro and macro management that a classic RTS requires in order for it to continue to be a classic.
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But this is not an AQ thread.
Maybe It wouldn’t increase strategical decision making or maybe it would idk, but to say it would DEcrease is lunacy. Having to remember pressing X button every X seconds is not, and never will be strategy.
It’s not the reason why people want it. The reason they want it is that it makes no sense not to have it.
EDIT: Forgot to say stuff about Auto-Scouting:
I heavily dislike any feature that just gives full AI control of something as intricate as scouting.
AI intervention in this game should be minimal where it is necessary, like when villagers finish building something and then just go build another incomplete building if there is one near.
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Why didn’t you create this poll before you implemented this feature. There are a ton of other changes that need to be made like adding an in game stand alone friends list.
The auto scouting feature just takes away from any forward or aggressive strategy. I would prefer to sneak up on my opponent not to be seen by a computerized route. Please don’t take away anymore strategies from us