Returning back to the topic as I see this is still up for discussion and I see the side debating for AQ are actually the ones arguing reasonably well. Let me reiterate; I don’t want to be conservative for the sake of being conservative. I play this game on a semi high level but couldn’t care less if major changes made my performance worse, I’m too old for that.
I’d suggest to take one step back from the issue to understand the underlying reason as to why this is brought up. I can surely agree that if AoE was built today you could argue whether AQ would be implemented or not, it’s a mundane task which seemingly is similar to farm queueing. But before diving into the details as to why it isn’t I want to adress the bigger question - does it need changing now?
A lot of the arguments I read in favor of AQ focuses on “button mashing” and “I’d rather focus on Xbow micro”. While I can very much understand this it would be hurtful for the game as a whole. Look at T90s Hidden Cup for instance. The reason that cup format even exists and functions is because the playstyles of this game is so vastly different because the game is setup and configured to allow those differences. Yes, some are great at button mashing (most of the aM team) while some are slower and better at macro (Daut, Tim, Stark). Point is, they all manage to compete on the top level due to the small varying details of this game. What we are looking at right now is a change that would change our perception of macro play and would severely impact players specializing in that. My argumentation is that this actually makes button mashing even more important as the economy will handle itself (a slight exaggeration but you see my point). So is this what we want to strive towards?
Regarding the detailed impact of AQ I think it also impacts the strategic thinking of your economy. Players will need to learn to visit their TCs no matter what because the economy has to be tended anyway with gather points, farm placement, replenished lumber camps etc. So in that context, what does the AQ feature actually do? Is it a time saver or is it rather something that dilutes your eco balance because now you have to keep track on how your production of your 3 TCs is queued up in comparison to your imp time. You’ll still have to circle through your TCs and handle all these things so does this feature really help you save time other than a few seconds in dark age?
So on the one hand I raise a flag of concern that this automation will impact the variety of this game while on the other hand I still believe the players wont benefit much from the functionality in reality.
I think you nailed the discussion there. Medium players that think they will bee beaten by beginners just because their scout is doing its job on its own. The Auto scouting has clear disadvantages as well not only advantages. How many times have I not killed an enemy AI scout underneath my TC, plus with the Atoscout feature I tend to put less observation to the Minimap. I still think its a good feature, and if you dont like it, dont use it, simple as that.
Love the arguments people made there back in 2003. This is an optional feature so if you don’t like it don’t use it. You will make no sense arguing over something that you don’t even use.
How much among them still play the game? Also at this time, they couldn’t foresee how much AOM would fall behind.
Also, the first answer states that: “whoever said it’s bad for Norse is completley insane” Welp, since they are the faction that has 3 different eco units to produce from the TC , they can’t just press the autoqueue button and move on, so whoever said it has actually a pretty good point.
Well mate, it has been a 250 replies toppic. If it wasn’t enough for you, i would recommend yo to pick war and peace or les misérables, because you can read a lot 11
Allowing Auto-queue of units is entirely different from AQ of farms or fish traps in my opinion. Here are the reasons why I think it’s a bad idea (military or vills, I’ll talk about vills first). Others have made some of these points but I’d like to put them all together:
Building your economy and managing it while also building military is a huge skill of multi-tasking and prioritizing what to focus on at the right time. Whether or not your economy has the right amount of villagers, the correct amount of vills on various resources, etc. is most often the difference between winning and losing the game. Is queueing up vills a repetitive task? Sure. The argument could be made that every action in this game is repetitive to some extent.
One of the biggest benefits to raiding your opponent on multiple sides is taking their focus away from their economy- and often the result is that you’re killing vills, they’re too distracted to keep making more to replace their losses, and your advantage grows. If their vills could be auto-queued, raiding attacks would be a lot less valuable because if they’re on 3 TC’s and they’re always producing it’s not as significant as killing a few vills AND distracting them from making more.
If you’re being pushed by an aggressive opponent, you can get back in the game by holding off their attacks while building a better eco behind it, sometimes capitalizing on the fact that they’re focusing so much on micro/unit control on the attack that their TC is idle and their economy is not attended to in their own base, allowing you to push back their attack with a more powerful military (because of your better eco) and then kill them.
Any time anyone in this thread mentions that another game has/doesn’t have a feature means less than nothing to me. If anything it makes me not want that feature at all. Wanna know what AoM, AoE3, AoE1, Rise of Nations, and other RTS games have in common? They’re not games that have a thriving pro scene and a player base that continues to grow 20 years after their original release. The people playing AoE2 have spoken by the fact that they still play this game. They’ve spoken by saying they like these mechanics, these features, these core parts of the game by still playing the game. People can talk all they want about how great some other game is/was, but no one is playing that game for a reason. It’s not as good as AoE2. So don’t change AoE2 to have mechanics of an inferior RTS game.
Ask ANY pro AoE2 player in the top 100 if they like the idea of AQ vills or military. I would be sincerely shocked if any pro player supported this idea at all. And it’s not because they’re elitist gatekeepers, it’s because they have a profound understanding of what makes this game complex, fun, and entertaining to watch. There’s a reason the most popular games that people play and watch tournaments of is Random Map. If the idea of allowing players to mostly focus on military micro was so great, the most popular game modes would be CBA or Death Match, but they’re not. People play RM and watch RM tournaments because that skill requirement of eco management, maintaining military production, etc. is a huge skill and automating it makes it less fun. Have you ever seen a pro player stream CBA? I haven’t.
After reading this thread I’m quite sure I won’t change the minds of BelatedLemur1 and PsychCaptain but I hope the devs read this thread and realize the vast majority of people do not want this feature.
If I may say something to the experts who whine about autoqueue…
I agree with you on one instance… Autoqueue enables noobs and rooks to have constant villager production. That nears the gap between new players and experts by very little.
However, autoqueue doesn’t decide for you! It doesn’t decide which military units you need, and need NOW, it doesn’t decide how much more wood vills you should be making before switching to food and gold, it doesn’t decide which vills to switch in case you should need it, it doesn’t decide when you should build what, thereby sacrificing villager time at the precise moment (for example, putting up temple, 10 houses with eggy, or blacksmith), and it doesn’t decide when to stop.
If no idle TC time is the ONLY thing separating you self-named experts from the rest of us, then you probably weren’t experts in the first place.
Because AI control my units, where they go and what they do. AI decides strategy, build order, what time to age up, what buildings to make, what tech to research, split dodge mango shots for me, micro fights for me, wall my base for me.
I don’t think in most cases there’s 1 singular feature/skill that separates noobs from pros, but rather a collection of various minor skills all put together. Just because that’s the case doesn’t mean that I have to allow/support a feature that reduces the skill gap. If the argument’s “it’s not that big of a change, if pros don’t like it they’re insecure about their skill level” then that’s a weak argument. My point is I think AQ of units, not farms or fish traps, makes AoE2 a worse game, and I think I brought up valid reasons why.
I don’t think pro players are the only voice that should be listened to in a game, I think listening to new players/potential new players is important. But I’ll say it again. There’s no other RTS game that 20 years after it’s original release continues to grow in popularity and be as relevant as it ever was. It’s because it’s the best RTS game out there right now, so why are we always, always, always looking to change it? Maybe the game’s design and balance is in a really good place right now. I feel like people come on these forums and just want change for the sake of it. It doesn’t make sense to me and I don’t think it would make the game better.
If people lose to AQ then they’ve lost the mind game. Why? Because, the fact enemy’s making one unit with AQ makes it easy to kill with your counter unit. If you lose to that then you’re not even justified to talk here
There is still a pretty big Warlords Battlecry community, so they might take issue with that.
And of course, people are playing Star Wars Batterground and making some great mods for it still (Expanding Fronts).
And people are still doing Command and Conquer Tournaments.
And the modding scene for Star Wars Empire at War is huge. As is Age of Empires 3.
There is a lot going on in the RTS world, but you have to look for it. Although most of those games came out in 2002 or later, so won’t be 20 years old for a few more years.
