Average out Goths as a civ counter or get countered

[AlightJewel1130]

@MatCauthon3

the entire point was that you say no civ should have such a huge advantage against other civs.

I’m not talking about an “advantage” I’m talking about straight up counter to the civ. Where you don’t have real options. You missed the WHOLE point. I’m not talking about changing Mayans (neither nerfing/buffing which you ALWAYS have to put like). I’m talking about slightly changing Goths to be a civ with options and having options to fight it with (the best would be for all civs).

@AlightJewel1130

I suggest two changes that would make Goths more averaged across all of these matchups:

1. Huskarls have negative melee armor -1 (just like rams have -3) or implement Huskarl armor class with the appropriate units receiving appropriately selected bonus damages to that armor class (just like Mamelukes have their own armor class)
2. Goths get a civ bonus to their Hand Cannoneers or Goths get Siege Engineers

@MatCauthon3

put your money where your mouth is.

Jesus, read man. You’re exactly like that guy that was not reading a single comment on the thread and was just posting some ridiculous comments without even playing the game.
Wait, you are him right now.

Every civ has a chance against Mayans. There are units and things you can always make to counter individual units of Mayans.

Let me clarify because you don’t understand - I don’t care about Mayans. The issue I see is about Goths themselves:

@AlightJewel1130

1. There’s too many situations where Goths are completely lost no matter what you do.
2. There’s few situations where Goths are favourite but they can still lose easily.
3. There are two situations where I would say Goths should always win.

Specifically

1. Against:

• Aztecs (infantry, Jaguars)
• Bulgarians (infantry, Konnik)
• Burmese (infantry, Arambai)
• Byzantines (Cataphract)
• Celts (infantry, Woad Raider)
• Cumans (Kipchak)
• Franks (Throwing Axeman)
• Incas (Slinger)
• Japanese (infantry, Samurai)
• Malians (Gbeto)
• Slavs (infantry)
• Teutons (infantry)
• Vikings (infantry, Berserk)

2. Against:

• Britons (FU champions, eco)
• Ethiopians (Shotels)
• Indians (HC +1 range, eco)
• Mongols (Steppe Lancers + Mangudai, eco)
• Vietnamese (not FU champions, eco)

3. Against:

• Koreans (not FU champions, lack of eco bonuses)
• Mayans (no direct Huscarl counter)

Unit countering is what makes this game, but straight out civ countering shouldn’t be so extensive.

I suggest two changes that would make Goths more averaged across all of these matchups:

1. Huskarls have negative melee armor -1 (just like rams have -3) or implement Huskarl armor class with the appropriate units receiving appropriately selected bonus damages to that armor class (just like Mamelukes have their own armor class)
2. Goths get a civ bonus to their Hand Cannoneers or Goths get Siege Engineers

Let me remind you AGAIN that:

@AlightJewel1130

This thread is aimed at people 1600+.

If you don’t understand some philosophy presented in this thread and you’re not meeting the requirement then you don’t understand some concepts and likely this thread is not meant for you.

@MatCauthon3

buff one of the best civs in the game right now

Getting Supplies for Mayans doesn’t make them any better in their standard builds against any, literally any other civ than Goths. Anyway I ALREADY SAID IF YOU NEED TO COMMENT ON IT DO IT HERE:

Should Mayans have supplies to have a chance against Goths?

Mayans lack champion upgrade - they only get 2-handers. They don’t have supplies either. Britons get FU champions with supplies. Britons have better options against Goths post imp. Mayans lost supplies in one of the recent patches. Should Mayans get supplies in order to somewhat have an option to counter Huskarls from Goth?

@MatCauthon3

and Mayans do. they have until mid to late castle age to do damage to goths, before the goth flood runs away.

This argument is really bad. You can always use it no matter the civ no matter the balance.
Going all in to end the game early or lose should never be a way to go. It’s so one-dimensional.

@BoughtRelic9282

Just a thought, maybe acting like an elitist is cancerous to the community?

I specifically aimed this thread to hear input from higher rated players. Since this is a topic that not everyone has a lot of experience with.
Almost always I see the threads overtaken by people who are not playing competitively (at all).
Yes, I’m interested to hear input from anyone but we have a couple of really low players in this forum that SHOUT the loudest. As you can see.