AZTEC NEW MECHANICS & CARDS - DISCUSSION/SUGGESTION

Age of Empires III: DE III - Discussion
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Hi all, its me again xD. Sorry devs here I go again…

After last patch (November 21), Aztecs were given a few cards, added a few visuals and balanced a few things for which Im really happy and thank the devs for keeping the good work. However as the original trio of Native Americans (Lakota, haudenosaunee and Aztecs) economy is not good since “original” one. In a few games were have played vs AI (hard), most of the time the first two lose or do nothing vs any civ as allies or enemies.

For Aztecs Food is great due the number of cards they have. plus Wise woman. But gold and wood is trouble, Aztec mining is a great card that “patches” the issue with wood a bit, but still their economy isnt great.

Incas that are the only Native American civ that currently is doing great has many things, Kancha (trickle for food and wood), Moon ceremony for wood as well a great design in general. So I took them for comparison.

GOLD TRICKLE "TEMPLE"
Noble huts to generate a 0.40 Gold per second. Max buildable 7 (as ingame currently). Formula:

  • 1 Noble hut = 0.40 x 7 Noble huts = 2.8 Gold per second, 14 = 5.6
    With upgrade or card upgrade +0.40
  • 1 Noble hut = 0.80 x 7 Noble huts = 5.6 Gold per second, 14 = 11.2

In comparison with Kanchas (Inca house)

  • 1 Kancha = 0.60 x 12 Kanchas = 7.2 Food
    With upgrade
  • 1 Kancha = 0.96 x 12 Kanchas = 11.52 Food

Thats just for example porpouses, numbers should be tweak, also most players dont build the 14 Noble huts.

PLAZA CEREMONIES

  • MOON CEREMONY: To be shared between all Native American. (Generates wood)
    OR* OFFERINGS CEREMONY (AZTEC ONLY): Produces a trickle of gold.

  • HEALING CEREMONY: Heals units. For other natives that doesnt have it.

  • VITALITY CEREMONY: Increases the max hitpoints of units.

  • TRAVEL CEREMONY: Increases the movement speed of units.

CARDS
I did a comparison between number of cards and unique cards per age between Incas and Aztecs, counting unique cards to their civs, and these are the results (isnt precise mind you, maybe variations).

  • A1: 10/33 INCAS | 05/32 AZTECS
  • A2: 14/38 INCAS | 06/40 AZTECS
  • A3: 12/33 INCAS | 08/38 AZTECS
  • A4: 09/37 INCAS | 09/37 AZTECS

Based on that most civs could use some unique cards or expand their cards with newer ones from dlc civs. Each temple support to give +1 priest and +1 max limit (up to +15)

AGE I NEW CARDS

  • TEPOCHALLI (NEW): Delivers 2 Villagers, +10% Villager Gather rates.
    Replaces the function of Xolotl Temple Support at A3, while does the same as many civs have this card in Age I, boosting economy but can be expendable.

  • TRIBUTES (NEW): Enriches you with a trickle of food for the rest of the game.
    The Aztec empire asked its “vasals” to provide different things, food, gold, people for sacrifices. In short was a tax.

  • CURRENCY (NEW): Transforms current food into gold.
    They used Cacao as currency thus this card, it does the same African card does.

  • CACAO CURRENCY (NEW): Beter market exchange rates of food and gold.
    As africans but instead of being a A4 card, the idea behind this is to allow us players to play with market when short of food or gold, following the princible of above (Cacao being food and currency)

  • RITUAL SACRIFICE (NEW): Units killed and lost grant experience.
    This one is as Age of the Ras, and would have a good sinenergy with Warchief Aura.

  • TEAM RICH LAND I (NEW): Delivers 1 Cooper mine to each player.
    Aztec Mining card is great, but most of the time if not in 1v1 match allies (ai mostly) will steal most mines.

AGE I SHARED CARDS

  • NATIVE ALLIES (INCAS): Ships 1 native embassy and enables to chose and ally. Chosen ally allows to train its units and develop some of its unique improvements. Allies: Mayas, Zapotecs, Caribs.

  • TEAM IMPROVED BUILDINGS (INCAS): +25% building hit points (Replaces Improved Buildings, due Monumental Architecture).

AGE I BALANCED CARDS

  • CALMECAC: Delivers 1 Priest (+1 Priest build limit), 1 Noble Hut and Allows to hire Priests from Noble hut for 100 gold.

  • AZTEC MINING: (Moved from Age III) +20% Mining gather and work rate, delivers 1 cooper mine.

AGE II NEW CARDS

  • GARLAND WARS: Each shipment gives 1 Skull Knight. Increase units stacks from 5 to 10.

  • TEAM RICH LAND II (NEW): Delivers 1 Silver mine to each player.

AGE II SHARED CARDS

  • MONUMENTAL ARQUITECTURE (INCAS) : +45% Hit points, +25% Town center attack.

AGE II BALANCED CARDS

  • TEMPLE OF CEONTEOTL: (Moved from Age III) +1 Priest (+1 Priest build limit), +4 Otontin slingers. +25% Hitpoints, +2 LOS and Range.

  • TEMPLE OF XOCHIPILLI: (Moved from Age III) +1 Priest (+1 Priest build limit), +4 Puma spearmen. +20% speed, +10% ranged resist.

  • TEMPLE OF XIPE TOTEC: (Moved from Age III) +1 Priest (+1 Priest build limit), +4 Coyote runners. +20% damage, +10% ranged resist.

  • TEMPLE OF XOLOTL: (Moved from Age III) +1 Priest (+1 Priest build limit), +2 silver mines. +20% Mining gather and work rate, Changes wood cost of units to gold (What Aztec mining did).
    My Aztec deck is mostly full at A3 and most of the time I have A2 nearly empty

  • RUNNERS (ADVANCED SCOUTS): +10% movement speed for all units, Upgrades Eagle scout to Eagle Runner and can build trading posts.
    The native scout should be only for North American Natives, and since Haudenosaunee is cav civ, they dont use them, Incas have Chasqi and Aztecs have Eagle.

  • TEMATLATL (OTONTIN SLINGER COMBAT) : (Moved from Age IV) +20% Ototin attack, grants area damage.
    They used oval shaped stones and hand molded clay balls filled with obsidian flakes or pebbles. Otontin has the funtion of “Skirmisher” however its one of the weakest units.

  • KNIGHT HITPOINTS: (Moved from Age III) +15% hit points all units.

  • KNIGHT ATTACK: (Moved from Age III) +15% damage all units.

  • SILENT STRIKE: Gives stealth to coyote and puma.

AGE III NEW CARDS

  • OFFERINGS (NEW): Increase trickle rate (0.40 to 0.80), and can toggle to get food.

  • TEMPLE OF TLALOC (NEW): +1 Priest (+1 Priest build limit), +4 fishing boats. +20% Gathering rate for fishing boats (gold and food).
    Renamed the orignal Tlaloc, It seems to me that some god names were given randomly.

  • TEAM RICH LAND III (NEW): Delivers 1 gold mine to each player.

AGE III BALANCED CARDS
strong text

  • TEMPLE OF COATLICUE: +1 Priest (+1 Priest build limit), +6 Arrow Knights. +20% attack speed and speed.

  • TEMPLE OF TONATIUH (TLALOC): +1 Priest (+1 Priest build limit), +6 Eagle Knights. +4 Range and LOS for Eagle Knights.

  • TEMPLE OF METZLI (QUETZALCOATL): +1 Priest (+1 Priest build limit), +6 Jaguar Knights. +15% damage, +25% speed when in stealth mode.
    Gods of Sun and Moon, Replaces Quetzalcoatl and Tlaloc.

  • RITUAL GLADIATORS: +5 Jaguar and Eagle Knights. Enemy units killed by Jaguar and Eagle knights give double exp, villagers give triple.
    In these rituals, 4 Jaguar or Eagle warriors fight againts 1 prisioner and he/she had a dummy weapon, so it was more of a excution/espectacle than anything.

  • NOBLE COMBAT (KNIGHT COMBAT): +15% Hit points and damage for noble hut units.
    For what I understand, war hut and noble hut units are divided between nobles and noble born units.

AGE IV NEW CARDS

  • CACAO FARMING (NEW): Gain a trickle of gold while gathering food in farms.
    Like: KOLA NUT CULTIVATION

  • TEMPLE OF QUETZALCOATL (NEW): +1 Priest (+1 Priest build limit), delivers 1 plaza (+1 plaza build limit, reduces plaza maximum capacity to 15, allowing to have 2 ceremonies at the same time).
    Quetzalcoatl, was the wise god. I consider this mechanic quite complex, dont know if even its posible or how balanced it would be.

  • RICH LAND IV UNLIMITED (NEW): Delivers 1 gold mine.

AGE IV BALANCED CARDS

  • RUTHLESNESS: (Moved from Age III) Affect all military units, +1.0 vs villagers for Warchief and War Priests.

  • SCORCHED EARTH: +50% siege damage all units.
    Dont know why its an only noble hut units, since the only with a good siege attack is puma (in the war hut).

  • TEMPLE OF TEZCATLIPOCA: +1 Priest (+1 Priest build limit), +8 Jaguar Knights. +25% speed to units in stealth mode, +10% Melee resistance Eagle Knights, +10% Ranged resistance Jaguar Knights. the same it did with Janey the pet Jaguar.
    Personally I dont send this card, I dont find use in jaguars at IV.

  • TEMPLE OF HUITZILOPCHTLI: +3 Priests (+3 Priest build limit), +8 Skull Knights.
    Eagle Knight: +50% hand attack, +10% melee resistance.
    Jaguar Knight: +10% melee and ranged resistance.
    Otontin: +20% damage, +10% melee resistance.
    Skull Knight: +1 hand attack, +1 speed (0.50 before).

    As Tezcatlipoca, being age 4 cards should be better, and being Huitzilopchtli the god of war and Main Aztec god this should be a great card.

OTHERS
Cards that Id like to mention that didnt not fully think how they could be added or its mechanics:

  • WALL OF SKULLS: +10 Skull knights, Noble huts and War huts recieve and aura that improves nearby units in combat +10% hitpoints and damage.
    OR: Instill fear to nearby enemies -10% damage.

  • EMPIRE: Expands max popultion by 50 (250).

  • TLACOPAN SUPPORT: +1 Priest, +5 Villagers, +1 Town center and Delivers a Warchief.

  • TEXCOCO SUPPORT: +1 Priest, +5 Villagers, +1 Town center and Delivers a Warchief.

Will make another post about my thoughts of units
FUTURE LINK

Thanks for reading thus far, please tell me what you think, what you would change or what you wouldnt.

10 Likes
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I already consider that the Aztecs no longer need anything. It is time to focus on the Haudenosaunees and the Lakotas, who have a late game 1000 times worse.

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Good post, big job.

A big problem that I see is the conglomeration of cards of age 3 that you want to include in the deck and they don’t fit.

They should distribute them among the other ages, this happens with several civs

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For now it is enough, but for the future all civilizations could continue to be polished.

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What you mean? Both Lakota and Haudenosaunee are much better in treaty, in terms of military both Lakota and Haudenosaunee are amazing and in terms of economy Haudenosaunee is on top in terms of the best boom at 40mins because of 119 villagers + cow booming + fur trade. Lakota economy is not that great still needs some buff but both Lakota and Haudenosaunee can win against Aztecs easily. In treaty, Aztecs are the worst at the moment.

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I dont think that, Hauds cant train kanyas cause the wood cost, same issue as coyote runners. Also their coin economy is not that great, after fur trade ending they cant do anything to recover and most of their army cost wood. If you get wood during treaty you cant get food for fur trade while they are the worst cutting wood of natives.

About lakota… I think that is the easier civ for aztecs. All you need are mortars protected with runners to take down teepes. Without teepes they cant kill azzys. But I think they are fine thanks to they can train their entire arsenal unlike Hauds.

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I don’t play a treaty, so I’m talking to you from my point of view of a Teams or 1v1 game that takes too long.

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These are all the economic cards available in the Aztec Home City.

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These are all the economic cards available in the Haudenosaunee Home City.

And I’m not counting temple shipments and wise woman bonuses.
And despite all the buffs, you keep asking for more things for Aztecas, are there other civilians that need attention? Your faces should fall in shame, boys.

2 Likes
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You have some really good ideas here and it seems like you have a good understanding of mechanics for the game! I actually encourage you to check out my thread I made with some azzy ideas a few months back: Aztec overhaul and other civ rework ideas megathread!

A really interesting idea and could make for some really cool builds, might be a bit hard to balance though.

The idea is good - the azzys struggle with taking out large groups of infantry currently, but area damage in this game can very easily spiral out of control, especially on large quantities of units. That’s why area damage is mostly only given to units that cost 2 or more pop, otherwise you end up with the mounted granadero situation. A better idea imo is to give either the Coyote Runner or the Slinger a charge attack similar to the skull knight, an initial attack that does area damage, then it goes on cooldown and they will continue to deal damage normally. I think attention should be focused on the Coyote runner, as that unit is literally unable to do it’s job efficiently especially against the new DE ‘tanky’ skirms(Neftenyas, State Militia…)

1 Like
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Thank you, I really gave it some thought xD. Yep Aztecs have a lot of usefull cards at A3, some that could be usefull earlier, like Aztec mining. Usually when playing 2v2 with Ai they steal my mines after depleting theirs, and in some maps where there are less mines is troblesome.

@AgedTadpole8003 I ll check it out.

Maybe I didnt explain mysefl properly there, but the improvement so the work as Incan slinger, I think its “cone” area or something like, not like a granadero, but as you said would be some testing xD. Ah I didnt want to speak about coyote here, yes they need something and what you said could be usefull, I dont know why they dont have bonuses at all.

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Well we agree to disagree, Im not saying that devs should just ignore other civs nor saying that they should do nothing for others, You could be little bit more constructive…

Im not asking devs to do this or that, Im suggesting things. If you feel that other civs need x thing more, make a post about it… your face should fall in shame xD.

But being serious as far as I have seen each patch adresses several civs, so I dont see a problem on this. Nor understand your point of just being negative.

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Yes. The priority is haudenosaunee and lakota. Lakota is the worst civilization in the treaty. But in the future more things could be added not only to the Aztecs, but to all facsions.

Lakota has the worst economy in the game in the late game (almost certainly). The Aztecs on the other hand have had a good economy (relatively) always. You are right that the Lakota are very good militarily, but they eventually burn out because of their huge deficit.

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No, azzys has infinite shipment of gold in the elderly and mechanics to obtain a large amount of experience (I clarify that I am finding that the kanchas produce wood).

I do not like ideas, because they are special abilities of the WC of each native civilization, the uniqueness of each civilization is lost.

It has some logic, but adding new and extra cards without measuring yourself can cause problems in the future. I recommend working with what you already have.

The first is unfair, no native has it, the second can be useful, the third calculation is for treaty, the fourth again draws singularity or another civ, the fifth card has a BB version on the market, the sixth is a Swedish card.

Why do you insist on bringing uniqueness to the Incas? American allies is not good, those civilizations have very strong technologies for azzys, and please, do not increase more the HP of the Aztec buildings, they reach 20000 HP in some cases.
The WP limit should be kept at 10 yes or yes brother, do not insist more with that, Aztec mining should stay in third, if you want it in the first age, then that the otomis and coyotes are worth wood even if you send the shipment

Broken.

Again?

No more HP for buildings!!!

Again, the priests are 10 at most and full stop, the other civilizations must settle for 25 villagers at most in the square.
The temple supports must be in third, otherwise, at least move Religious Unity to Industrial, otherwise it will be broken

Fast and mobile army is unique ability of the Lakotas, the Incas should have it but more nerfed.

Only 10% attack, not even Haudenosaune infantry upgrades are that good.

Well, until here I come, you are crazy friend. Don’t be offended plis, but everything you ask and suggest is insane.

To summarize, the Aztec units are not very strong, they need slight adjustments that, for me, should be explored in the BBs.
In economy they are very acceptable, if you compare them with the Incas that are currently in S + and are broken, they will look weak, but it is logical, if you compare their echo with Lakotas, the Aztec echo is 1000 times better.
And finally, 10 WP bro, nothing more, if you don’t like it, then put more villagers in the square, those of us who play with Lakotas and Haudenosaunees must do that.

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cow eco+fur trade is super strong.

issue is wood tho.

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And the gold, don’t forget the gold!

PS: Am I the only one talking about 1v1 balance here?

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Well, I paid more attention to lore than balance. Admittedly, there are good ideas. Of course, many ideas tend to be exaggerated when they are just initiatives, but they can be polished and made viable.

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fur trade gives you if done well 150k gold which is enough to survive.

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Note: this comment is 1v1 Supremacy, not team or treaty.

I think we need the meta to settle a little bit more on Aztec before suggesting a lot of these changes. You put up a lot of interesting ideas, but a lot of them seem too strong. A Sweden situation where a civ bounces between over powered and under powered should be avoided.

The only things I can see to be reasonable right now is reassigning cards from Age 3 to other ages (probably Age 4), and scaling the Jaguar Prowl Knight up to 150 resources. As well as some bug fixes such as receiving the Calmecac while aging.

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That’s FOR SURE. All Warchief civs (maybe not Inca) need more love and update.

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Fur trade does not work in 1v1 and in teams. They need cards that improve the gathering of food and gold from buildings in the industrial age and redesign all the support cards. It cannot be that the Inca and Aztec cards are worth only 500 gold and grant bonuses, even the Lakota cards provide you with very good improvements.

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Hauds and lakota get arsenal upgrades on houses. Lakota get cards that boost their units but they are 3 or 4, not for every unit. Hauds have artillery instead, a great advantage.