According to the last Hera Tiers list, Aztecs are still in top 15 best civs 1V1 all map included.
But I think it doesn’t mean that they don’t need any change.
In plus of a militia line general rework that we all wait, I imagine :
Atlatl : +2 range instead of +1 range +1 attack. Why ? To give Aztecs a slight better chance vs HC + Bbc combo. The only option now is redemption monks but it’s still very hard to snipe a Bbc with monks when it’s surrended by 20 - 30 HC. Or at least you loose so many monks that it’s not profitable to convert a Bbc.
JW: Speed +5% at castle, Elite JW +10%. Additional damage vs Buildings. Why ? To make them a better units to raid with damaging opponent’s base.
I don’t think it’s enough buff to require a nerf. But if a nerf is necessary, I’ll be for removing fortified stone wall to them or even stone wall.
Did you try already ? HC instant die in the middle of other HC. If opponent have few villagers to repair it’s almost mission impossible.
Except of course for very high elo gods of Micro.
If you want to snipe a bbc you cannot stay under castle. And insane HP after how many techs ? Most of the time you have a +10, +20 HP monks and never the reach the maximul HP it’s too expansive.
Even if you don’t have the maximum 100 hp monks, the extra hp from the cheap monk techs and the must-have monk techs are still pretty good.
Castle age techs:
<= 200 gold cost: sanctity, fervor, herbal medicine, devotion (note food cost, though still cheap)
Often a must get: redemption (converting siege is huge, and converting buildings can be a dangerous threat)
Atonement at 325 gold isn’t too expensive and is a must-get if you’re facing enemy monks
Heresy is expensive (so you’ll only get it if you’re facing lots of monks or if you have a lot of spare gold)
So easily get an extra 5 or 6 monastery techs in castle age for +25/30 hp (for a total of 70/75 hp). Not a bad number by any means, and easy enough to increase gradually. And just sanctity/fervor will get you to 55 hp monks (pretty good for 315 gold), though a different tech may be situationally better over fervor.
For the imperial age techs, illumination, theocracy, and block printing are all pretty cheap (<= 200 gold). Faith is still expensive, so it has use cases similar to Heresy. But if we assume that you get all techs except Faith and Heresy, you’re looking at 75 hp monks in late castle age and 90 hp monks in early-mid imperial age. Early to mid castle age I’d expect monk hp to gradually increase from 50 to 70 max hp.
Suffice it to say, I consider Aztec monks to be top-tier.
Yeah of course I’m talking about converting more than half of the HCs at once. Do some Survivalist machine gun micro. It’s easier than you think. (Get some pikemen to defend from light cavs)
Yes, I agree with the theory. But let’s be serious, buying 6 monastery techs at Castle age is an all in strategy and you ONLY make monks. It’s a kind of strategy that almost no one plays except few streamers to show their skills with monks. Or Maybe on Michi or Black forest ?
You guys are so good at playing monks. These Aztecs Pikemen are not enough to prevent hussars to kill your monks. Especially if you buy all monasteries techs, it’s gonna be hard to get Garland War.
I would be thankful if you could share few of your games on open maps with your monks strategies against Turks or Hindustanis for example.
Jaguar warriors deal +15 bonus damage against infantry; +11 vs condottiero.
Jaguar warriors move 1.15.
About 1: They were intended to have +15%, but due to a bug they had +18%. In DE, they got nerf to +11% because of their eco, BUT afterwards aztec eco got nerfed. They shoul keep the eco nerf, but give them their +15% production they always were supposed to have.
About 2 and 3: Now JW are basically meele hand cannons. They are still going to die, but at least they can close in and hit harder to fullfil their purpose before dying.
Plus the strategic factor that the speed increase grants.
Aztecs monk is the only monk that can survive a canon ball hit. It is hard to use monk against BBC but Aztecs have the best one to do it. HC is a real deal, no doubt. Although I think extra attck is more helpful than range especially in trash war when you don’t have LC or Hussar.
A normal person will not micro more than maximum 2 groups of skirms (most of the time you use all you skirms at the same time). So you one shot your opponents units individually in any cases, so I still think +2 range is much better than +1/+1.
If you start to use your skirms to snipe some light cavalry, it means you are in a very desperate situation and have nothing else. VS Hallebardiers, you still one shot (one group shoot I mean) them with a group of Skirms even without atk bonus.
Aztecs are a monk civ, and their bonuses (and tech tree) really push them towards aggressive gameplay. Investing so much into monks may be an all-in strategy, but Aztecs (like the other meso civs) fall off in the late game (they have Siege Onagers, but that is more of a team game thing). Once gold runs out, a meso civ is basically dead, so they have to end things before then.
I’m not going to claim to be great at playing monks. But I have seen games where a group of Aztec monks converted a group of hussars (or light cav) that were sent at them. And that’s the best melee option against monks. For ranged options, Aztec skirms are pretty good, and an Aztec monk push could be aggressive enough to make massing range units difficult.
But if an opponent is spamming hussars, then the Aztec player has probably taken too long (at least in a 1v1. Team games are a different story).
The goal is not microing skirms against LC/Hussar. When skirms deal double the damage than regular, you can rely on them to kill LC/Hussar a lot faster to protect your monk. +1 range will be helpful against HC, no doubt. But won’t compensate killing LC/Hussar twice as fast. I’d consider it as a nerf when HC is way more uncommon than Hussar or FU/FU+ LC.
Obviously there will be pikeman. Also I should correct my mistake. I’m talking about mainly trash war. So there will be little to no monk. Aztecs already don’t have a chance as they have one of the worst trash in the game. But +1 attack for skirms is definitely something that helps.
Do the calculation. Skirms deal 1 damage to 6 PA unit (Huusar, LC, Cavalier, Champion+Gambeson). Aztecs with Atlatl does 2. So they can kill them in half number of javelin resulting in killing them 2x faster.
If opponent is trying to snipe your trebs or take down your castle with canons he has to bring his canons at 12 range distance from castles. And monks with block printing have the same. So you can stay under or 1 tile away from castle and convert enemy monks. The monk sniping units like hc should dive under the castle to kill it.
Are you kidding? First of all +20 is already A LOT. And most of the monk techs are 200 gold or below. You don’t have to get 90+ hp. 70-80 hp is good enough and killing such a monk is insanely difficult. Gold is the easier resource to collect until 35+ mins.
I’d say sanctity, fervor is done quite often. And given the nature of the civ, redemption is also done frequently. I agree atonement or herbal medicine are not usually researched by Aztecs but his point its not very expensive to get a crazy monk hp.
If opponent gets to a lot of hussar its obviously not enough to defend with monks. But most of the discussion is about earlier stages. You’ve just reached imp, Aztec player is pushing with monks, eagles, pikes (or skirms as per your civ) and trebs. At this point getting enough number of hussar is difficult compared to pikes and eagles.
This is also theory. I know the game and range of units, but share a game please in the original situation. Show me how you convert a bbc surrended by 20 - 30 HC. And you can add the castle behind because you told yourself you not gonna be hitted.
This is not the question bruh if it’s a lot or not a lot. But if it’s a lot, again show me how you manage well against 20 - 30 HC + Bbc.
Ok I still cannot understand what is your point and how it has a link to the topic… It’s easy to get a lot of HP ? Enough to snipe some bbcs surrended y 20 - 30 HC (and a castle) ?
Aztecs insane monk along with team bonus certainly helps to secure more relic gold.
If you want to convert BBC in Imperial age, you also have to add Block Printing. That’s 65 HP. Theocracy and Illumination are very cheap to grab and totally worth it when your target is a 225 gold unit.
Okay. Aztecs have no counter to that many. Unless you can afford sacrificing 10 skirms for 1 BBC and still manage to hold the HC from going to your base.
