Balance changes we don't need

Everyday there are a lot of new complains about balancing, few minutes ago i read one guy trying to give chemistry to turks in castle age, for balance suggestion you need to understand better the game, it is not just give this or remove this, so i am going to list the most frequent balance requests that i have been reading that doesn’t need to be changed.

El dorado: for 20 years this UT has never been broken, now some streamer said it should give less HP and their fans are suggesting the same, fact is EL dorado is the only thing that gives Mayans something strong for late game, aztks have OP monks and SO, this is not about economic it is about military units, they don’t even have champs, if you nerf el dorado you need to give them champs at least but still, el dorado is far from being OP, the civ has been nerfed twice in DE plums are more expensive, arch discount reduced, lasting resources bonus also has been decreased, if you keep nerfing mayans the civ will be dead. With the addition of supplies el dorado and their ews have been well countered by the devs design, stop trying to hurt the civ identity, if there is only one thing that should be decreased is their obsidian tech to less one attack vs buildings.

Burmese: they don’t need buffs, they need more nerfs, free wood upgrades is alone a super B bonus, monk tech discount is still broken, infantry line has extra attack from feudal age up to imperial age? that is just too much strong bonuses for a civ that also got a buffed conquistador with more attack, speed and HP oh and arambai only cost wood and gold allowing them to mass them faster. Arambai needs to lose their power vs buildings, killing only units is the way to go for such high attack and mobility, they were fine with the +2 PA on BE, reverting that UT should balance their eles, monk tech discount should go down to 30%.

Buffing both portu and koreans more without even have enough data games to get into that conclusion, 20% discount is a lot for both civs, having in consideration they are naval civs, korean is still a heavy civ on imperial, more bonuses to them will turn the civ broken from feudal to imperial age, portu in the other hand has cheap gold units, that bonus is huge, portu doesn’t need more bonus, instead they need to fix the organ gun and the HC line.

Turks: They don’t need pikes, halbs or onagers, they already save tons of free resources and time, if they fix HC and janny frame delay plus onagers and halbs, the civ could be unstoppable, like they have been in boom maps forever with those bbtowers and extra range bbc. Getting elite skirm or genitour doesn’t sound so bad given the experience and enough data over 20 years that turks without gold is insta GG.

Byzantines: For the lord sake, they don’t need town patrol, more line of sight in buildings is not going to help them, there is a reason why that tech is barely researched in high, mid and lower levels, unless you are looking for hidden villagers in large maps there is no reason to research it, hence giving it for free would be a waste of bonus and missing the opportunity to give the civ something that has been needing for years(bloodlines), whether if you like or not, that upgrade is the only thing that could boost them for team games and would give them more options in 1x1 instead of just being the arch+fast imperial civ. Reducing cata upgrade didn’t help the civ as expected, while it was good for the unit, it didn’t affect positively the balance on their tgs or 1x1.

Franks: they don’t need bloodlines, but forager bonus needs to be reduced a little and chivalry reduced by 10%.

There are more crazy balance suggestions but i have faith in the devs that they might skip those suggestions.

I see a lot of users that link spirit of law videos or aoe2stats to look more serious, but if you want to have an impact and better references link ur AOE 1x1 rank to ur balance suggestions, that could help us as readers to understand your point of view from ur perspective, thank you, have a good day.


I agree with most of your point but

You mean that Koreans still Ok because they are Navy civ and they are bad in all land map it is Okay? I think all civs should be at least usable in open land map.
I also think that 20% wood discount for all warship is borderline OP in water map but it is very mediocre bonus for land unit. It only applies to Archer, Skirmisher, Spearman line and only 10% discount for total cost. considering Byzantines get 25% discount for their Skirmisher and Spearman line, I think discount rate of Navy (reduced to 15% again) and land unit (Barrack and Archery range unit 35% wood discount) should be separated.
Besides, portu have gold discount in all their archer, knight, Monks, Seige including Trebs and it should be fine and underrated because they are rarely played.

Byzantines shouldn’t get bloodlines because of their camels. They can train camels in same gold cost of crossbow (nearly half of knight). They can access to FU camels in castle age against Cavarly civ? It is broken. If Byzantines have to get bloodline, they should lose their camel discount or decrease to like 10% instead of 25% discount.

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yeah, that’s why Burmese are seen so often right? oh wait.
Monk tech discount? how many monk techs do most people even get? it isn’t saving them that much of a bonus.

yeah that extra 3 total to a unit that is rarely seen, and to a unit whose most of their damage comes from bonus damage is totally broken.

not enough data? how about their non existent use in the tournament scene? not enough data there?
how about their non existent play rate overall (less then 1.2% for either of them) with sub 45% winrates, and sub 40% winrates at the highest level? oh and for civs that are apparently very strong on water, why don’t they see much use? compare that to Vikings whoare competitive in both.

i don’t think anyone is actually taking bloodlines suggestion seriously. as for a guy who literally tried to belittle me in another post, hey guess what, one of these ideas is something i suggested (nerfing forager bonus).


Yeah go back to 9PA BEs and doom all archer civs.
There’s a reason why they got reduced to +1PA

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Kind of like how they get hard countered by all the archer civs right now and have no option. You can counter elephants with monks with no upfront costs or cheap pikes. Burmese have no realistic answer to archers. Making extra pierce armor elephants against archers is their best option but you need a castle, a UT, armor upgrades, and elephants. Every one of those is more expensive compared to upgrading and making archers. So in the meantime trying to invest into elephants in castle age, you can build up a mass of 40 archers in imperial age that can 2 shot an elephant which you can hit and run against. So yes they should get +2 PA back.

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Not just “some streamer”. TheViper, Hera and Nili, all three have said it live, and multiple times in the case of TheViper and Nili. i will send you the link if you want proof, it’s also in this topic i made

You should be more aware before making vague and possibly misleading comments

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What are you talking about? Jannisaries have slightly higher frame delay then crossbows(14 vs 12), and elite have none at all.

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doesnt help that you exagerate the oppositions point of view. we dont want el dorado nerfed so bad its useless…

BUT mayans are incredibly strong throughout the entire game from start to late game. (basically just before gold runs out) that in itself is enough to nerf their late game

but on top of that, eagles are already so much harder to deal with using specific civs. now you buff them by +67%!!! hp? how is that rational.? NOTHING in the game comes remotely close to that kind of buff

im not a legacy player, but all i keep hearing is that mesos were the only civs played, and maybe huns. how was this UT not broken? neither does the past balance define the current balance

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I agree that several buffs you mention are not a priority… but then what is the real priority?

Mayans maybe are fine, if anything I would touch the archer discount and tune the plumes cost .

Burmese are not in needs for a huge buff…

Ofc free town patrol is not mandatory for Byzantines, just cool to have

But what about weak civs? Turks especially are too bad on arabia, which is the main map, it is 75% of the games. Similar for the supposed naval civs (Italians, Portuguese, Koreans). They are very good on a niche (pure water) but in the reference scenario, where the game is actually played, they are just bad…