I think we all need thread witch cover all the topics with ballance sugestions. We have many of them on this forum, one big thread will be better, because more likely devs will see one big topic.
Sugestions of balance changes are many, but I think we can have them in one place.
This will be my propositions, many of them really little.
Lets begin:
Byzantines - Lower the cost of Elite Cata upgrade. Like -500F to 1100F 800G. Give them Siege Engineers.
Bulgarians - Konnik cost +5G
Italians - GC TT -3s
Lithuanians - Leitis cost + 15G, give them Partian Tactics.
Portuguese - Gold discount to the -20%, Arquebus bigger effect on BBT, Organ Guns +1 vs inf again, Caravel +2 ship armour, give them lasting longer fish.
Tatars - Keshik cost +15G
Turks - Give them Onager. Take away scorpion-line.
I also sugested give Turks new UU, Asap, creating in Barracks, fast creation, low cost, trash unit cost only food, fast movment, low stats, bonus vs archers. But this is relativly big change. Maybe possible, but i doubght devs will do this.
increasing the portuguese gold discount sounds like a bad idea tbh, 60 gold knights and 36 gold xbows. Maybe give them gold shaft mining?
the old port BBTs weren’t fun to play against, like at all. Organ guns need bonus vs skirmishers really, they suck at killing the skirms and the halbs die and then a cavalry charge will wipe your expensive deathball, the hand canonneers with ballistics are much more dangerous.
Konnik can almost beat Paladin (Pala survive with few HP, 2 or something like that) being far less sensitive vs Halbs and Camels. Even can kill ImpCamel.
Keshik has Cavalier stats, similar role to Tarkan, and cost 20 gold less. Cmon, Keshik has price of infantry.
And Keshik and Konnik were not affected by last patch. By previous patch eather.
And Leitis… I simply think this was overbuff. This thing shouldn’t be cost-effective vs camels.
And I forgot about Everybody Favorite Unit, Indian Elephant Archer. I sugest give them small bonus vs siege, like +2 or +3.They now will can protect skirms and HC from Onagers.
Konniks are also a much bigger investment then paladins. They require a castle to produce, stirrups and every melee upgrade in the game from the blacksmith.
Keshiks attack slower and are weaker against archers.
You think its an overbuff but we don’t have enough evidence yet to determine that so far. How about we wait and see instead of preemptive nerf.
And why shouldn’t it be cost effective against camels? Not the first time we’ve seen something like that
I mean by that logic we should nerf archery units into the ground because they are too cost effective against pretty much everything when massed.
Well I’ve been blabbering a lot lately, buy wtf. Here are my main suggestions:
Longswordman and upgrades get +0.05 speed. 2hs +5 hp. Champion upgrade cost now 250g and 600 f and take 40 s
Eagles cost 25 gold now.
Turks get some buff. I would like some pseudo trash unit, specialized in kill archers/skirs. And maybe pikes. They need some extra love against archers.
Portuguese: cheaper universities and techs from universities (50%). Free ballistics could be good, but to op.
Koreans: some land buff. I’ll go for free archers armor.
Burmese: IDK. An slight buff, to help them against archers.
Sarracens : camel line +1 attack
Berbers: some water bonus. I’ll like demo ships to have more damage and or more blast radious (20% and 20%?)
And of course, some buff to all useless or forgoten UU. Specially Indians Elephant archers.
You will reaserch blacksmith upgrades anyway, because you will probably make halbs in some point. And Stirrups are Castle Age tech, so you will probably will get it for your knights.
Slower than what?
Keshik attack FASTER than Tarkan. Can even beat Tarkan 1v1. Attack slower than Cavalier, but has more HP and more PA. Is even faster, so is harder to catch by Camels.
I mean, camels are normal counter to the cavalry and only specific cav should be immune to them. We allready have two those UU, Cataphract and Konnik. Leitis has anoother purpose, is killer of armoured units, in fact, mostly Paladins. So Leitis have role similar to the Camel. This mean, should trade vs Camels equaly, 1 to1.
Cavalier. The unit you were comparing it too.
As for tarkans. Different roles. Tarkans are better against ranged units and defenses and get a bonus against buildings.
Keshik are wasted on buildings and archers laugh at them. But are good raiders.
And thats what the leitis is. A specific cav.
Making the leitis more expensive takes away from what makes it actually usable. No one made them before and now you want to increase their gold cost by 30%.
Is still cheaper than knight-line. Upgrades included. And another factor what hold them back was not only cost, but also training time. This will stay high.
10 gold for 10 food. And requires a castle to make unlike knights.
They are so food intense that it wouldn’t be effective to make them in castle age. You’d be relegated to late imp because even when you get to imp the upgrade to elite is still more expensive then cavalier.
Ok, you convince me, +15G is little too much. -5F +10G. Slightly more expensive than Tarkan or Heavy Camel. But…
Yes, but Leitis in most situations is in par of Paladin, exept fighting archers.
And one more thing.
Keshiks are better vs archers than Cavaliers. Cavalier take 35 shots from FUArb. EKeshik - 55 (!). Almost as many as Paladin (in this case was 60).
Devs, please dont hear this kind of balance suggestions, they would ruin the game. Please just read the PROS point of view and don’t take any of this noob considerations.
I don’t get the whole “Last khan cav = too cheap = OP” And yet we aren’t seeing mass Konniks rekting everything like they did on release. Only way they are getting nerfed if that if some game breaking strat is disocvered, as 3 months (iirc) of cheap Keshiks didn’t lead to any Tatar civ win yet.
Byz are no joke in trash wars, so them getting SE on their siege rams sounds like making them even bettr at what they do just fine already.
This HAS to be a typo 11
I’ve learnt recently (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t87iMRVahhI) that Berbers are actually OK on water, as you can use a back dock strat to mass galleys and then out micro whatever the enemy has to death.
It’s assuming you get relics, and that you can somehow outspam them with castle production only (not to mention halb still work just fine)
If you’re playing Indian, you already have BBC and hussars for that.
No one brought up the fact they can be made from stables.
Byz getting siege engineers is only logical, defensive civ not being able to defend their castles from better trebs with their own trebs. Byz also aren’t that good in trash wars, their hussars are just bad and they don’t get any discount for the most spammed trash unit. The discount doesn’t matter much for skirms and halbs in post imperial
I agree, this is very needed to make cataphracts viable
I think byzantines after the cataphract buff will already be somewhat good on land, so I disagree with this. They neither were a siege civilization.
I definitely don’t understand this. Tbh I would even buff the konnik to make them one of the UUs which are like mangudie and plumes, a must have for their civ, since bulgarians are kinda weak right now, don’t really have anything strong going for them.
Agreed, not less and no more than -3 seconds.
I don’t have any opionion yet about the leitis buff, but I think you neither have a sure one just in 2 weeks. Regarding parthian tactics: there was a reason why it got removed from the lithuanians in the beta.
Caraval is a very hard thing to buff, since it is very strong in the late game (altough it is very hard to reach it), but pretty weak in the early game. Tbh I would only give the non-elite caravel +1 attack, it is more viable to start massing them early. I definitely wouldn’t change anything about the elite version though.
Gold discount: I disagree, it is already a good bonus, and would make their gunpowder really strong.
+10G is enough. I would also multiply the gold you loot when attacking by 1,5 because currently it is very, very low.
Turks should rather get siege enginiers. Their bombard cannons are worse than the FU ones, since they cause less damage to buildings. +2 range wouldn’t be broken on bombard cannons, it is neither broken on trebuchets (tatar bonus)
This is definitely needed, aztecs are one of the best civs overall, yet they are still not receiving nerfs. Even this small one could do wonders.
Saracens are pretty good now, just very hard to play. Not all players can use the market bonus effectively.
This looks like a fun bonus, I would even give them shipwright besides this. Then, I think, they would be nearly as strong as italians right now.
I’ve made a recent post about buffing the long swordsman and their upgrades, where I suggested +0,05 speed and +1 attack (aswell -1attack bonus versus eagles to balance that).
Yeah, they are really bad versus archers, really could get some buff.