Change free fame upgrade to 50% cheaper farm upgrade to preserve the orginila bonus but weaken it sibstsnrly as it needs now resources, time, a mill, and most importantly attention to research.
Burgunduans would have 50% cheaper food all eco
Vietnamese have 100% cheaper wood all eco
And Frank will have 50% cheaper food and wood but only farm uogrsdes
Same approach can be used to nerf Bohemains and mining upgrades and vikings and hand cart.
I thought that, or maybe the opposite of vietnamese bonus => farms upgrades cost only wood.
That would be a smaller nerf, would rather nerf them harder
And what would happen if you switched Sicilians farm bonus with Franks? Random thoughts, very, very random.
They would become worse early game and even better very lategame. Not sure why thought
But the late-lategame they are supposed to be good, after all they have the strongest Paladin without much effort.
But isnât the problem at the moment that they reach too easily that stage?
Sicilians farm bonus on the other hand doesnât help very soon, on the other hand maybe farm bonus like Franks is wasted on Sicilians as they donât even have a power unit like Paladin.
Thatâs why we nerf their free farms. To many and too strong eco advantages make everything op. Faster berries, farms immideitly form feudal with extra food, free bloodlines is too much.
Their lategame is good too, so at every stage you are behind. And then they drop a castle in your face
Indeed, and Sicilian bonus is an indirect nerf isnât it? Itâs far weaker than the regular bonus at least for feudal and early/mid castle age.
Yah maybe, but I donât see the point. Sicilians bonus wonât be switched anyway with Frankâs
Siege onager? Hauberk? Access to siege ram and arbs?
Since I said Paladin I meant team games.
In team games Sicilians have arbs without Thumb Ring and last armor, Cavaliers that are good, but not even remotely comparable to Paladins, and yes, they have siege onager and siege ram, basically they play halb+siege or halb+serjeant+siege. But they have no bonus for that composition, no surprise theyâre bottom 10 in team games, quite a lot of civs can play halb+siege better than Sicilians.
But letâs not derail the topic further, I proposed something which is clearly unfit and like Geojak said 99,99% unlikely to happen so nevermind.
I still think my proposal is the ultimate solution (from the other Franks thread)
Give franks NONFREE bloodlines and have the hp bonus kick in imperial age. Tweak the 20% if necessary or reduce chivalry abit to balance TGs. Which this change, you dont need to mess with frank eco bonuses, they will have to shell out 150food and gold in castle age where they are clearly overpowered. Chivalry is meaningless in 1v1, because by then, franks do not have the gold lategame to sustain heavy paladin production. This also means that we can nerf it in TG to compensate for the slightly greater paladin hp resulting from having both bloodlines and civ hp bonus.
Because making franks even more dominant in late game team games is a terrible idea. I dont get why you guys want to buff their paladins in the late game. Itâs an absurd idea.
Next thing I know people are going to propose a civ bonus or tech fof the next paladin civ that gives rhem an extra pierce armor.
Give Sicilians Paladin. They are the only cavalry civ with no Hussar and no Paladin. 11
Problem is, they are NOT that dominant in lategame teamgames according to the stats. They only get strong because of foregoing bloodlines in early castle age, freeing up vital resources for more vills and blacksmith upgrades. Ultra late game can be tweaked if there is an issue, by slightling nerfing the hp bonus and/or chivalry. I see no problem here.
Yeah. ofc Franks have the best paladins, but itâs only 6,7 % more HP, nothing more.
Really some people exaggerate things. This bonus can so easily be compensated by just a little bit of better micro or eco management. It only plays a minor role in reality.
Franks have a really strong eco and insane timings, thatâs what makes them the no1 TG pocket civ for the most part. The extra HP is just a cherry on top.
Edit: I talk about TGs here. As it was the critic. I know on 1v1 the 12 HP more make a big difference. But on 1v1 having even more HP then makes not that much of a difference anymore as long as it doesnât increase the number of hits to be taken from Halbs.
Camels and Arbalesters?
Itâs not that crucial in 1v1s. Arbs are hardcountered by palas, Camels counter palas regardless and can force the engagement.
Keeping the Paladins one of the best or even buffing is not the issue. Getting the whole knight-line spam rolling so easily and smoothly is the issue. The change should be to limit eco bonuses.
According to what stats? Aoestats? Outdated.
Age of statistics doesnât have their winrate dip below 50% until after the 70 minute mark.
The advantage is huge in team games though. They tank 4 extra arb hits. Now imagine you give them 10% hp on top of bloodlines. They now get 16 extra hp and survive 6 extra arb hits. You think thatâs not gonna have an impact? Not to mention taking 1 extra hit from enemy paladins.