Beta Tester Perspective: Worst State Aoe4 Has Ever Been

[marcoracosta205]

@GorbMort

So neither of us are wrong, then. We mean “core” differently. You use it to mean “in the game”. I use it to mean a part of the daily experience that all players are exposed to by default.

Exactly.

@GorbMort

Good faith please, marco

I mean you’re not forced to play them in any of the existing game modes. Like I said, they weren’t put into the existing campaigns, you don’t have to encounter them in automatch, and so on. No need for these kinds of gotchas, especially when we’re working from different definitions.

I did it on purpose because i knew what you meant, of course these monster thingies are optional, and if you dont like it, you just cant ignore it, but because something can be ignored, doesnt mean it doesnt exist.

Like i’ve saif if they wanted to reuse these seasonal content things they could have taken a much more natural path akin to classical age of empires: Make the monsters cheat code units, make the biomes mods people can download IF they want.

@GorbMort

Of course they’re involved with working on it. That doesn’t change what I said r.e. communication overall. I work on documentation and feature roadmaps at work. I am not responsible for rolling it out, or presenting it to customers. That’s Product’s job. I would expect a similar breakdown here, and that’s before we consider SEGA’s layoffs at Relic and Relic subsequently going independent.

To be honest we are both speculating here, i think the point remains, they should improve communication, i dont really care if its relic or if its microsoft, but they need to communicate better.

@GorbMort

I yell about modding support every chance I get (for all the good its done haha)

So do i… haha, they have us in the shadows.

@GorbMort

Ultimately the developers will keep whatever is popular and helps keep player numbers up.

Sure, the thing is, was it popular? Ive never seen someone requesting their return.

@GorbMort

I disagree that this is the worst the game has ever been, and it seems to be purely because of how differently you and I rate the fantasy elements in this game, as well as the concept of Variants.

To be honest, like i said to Adri, its not that i think the “product” it self is in its worst state, but that the whole aoe4 apple is rotten, lack of vision, lack of communication, not hearing the playerbase, etc, etc…

Of course im not going to deny that personally i despise the fantasy elements.

@GorbMort

The developers have always listened. We’re seeing that even to this day, with a new Japanese shield model, Floating Gate water effects, some enhancements to weapon rendering.

Sure, there are good things too, its not like i dont want to see the great, things like developers adding falling leafs in one of the new biomes is extremely cool, however this is not an appretiation post, im trying to show the bad face of aoe4 here so if the developers truly care can take notes from what we all think, at the end of the day its not only my message what counts but the overall discussion of the community in this thread as well, you can agree or you cannot and that is fine, it all helps.

[GorbMort]

@marcoracosta205

Like i’ve saif if they wanted to reuse these seasonal content things they could have taken a much more natural path akin to classical age of empires: Make the monsters cheat code units, make the biomes mods people can download IF they want.

Cheat code units can’t do what Map Monsters do. They’re world (Gaia) owned units that do something to any player who encounters them. Cheat code units are player owned. There’s some amount of scripting involved (which I’m sure you know about).

Making BIomes into modded content drastically lowers their reach. I think this is a preference thing, and I’m not sure that it’s any more “natural” given the mod / lobby interactions in IV.

@marcoracosta205

To be honest we are both speculating here, i think the point remains, they should improve communication, i dont really care if its relic or if its microsoft, but they need to communicate better.

We are, and I agree.

@marcoracosta205

Sure, the thing is, was it popular? Ive never seen someone requesting their return.

Anecdotally? Sure. But only the developers have the data at the end of the day. I’ve seen people saying they want them back, people saying they should never come back, and everything inbetween

[marcoracosta205]

@GorbMort

Cheat code units can’t do what Map Monsters do. They’re world (Gaia) owned units that do something to any player who encounters them.

I mean, they can tweak them, or redesign them to do another functionality while reusing the unit model, of course if they dont want to do that, they can also upload this gamemode as a mod.

@GorbMort

Anecdotally? Sure. But only the developers have the data at the end of the day. I’ve seen people saying they want them back, people saying they should never come back, and everything inbetween

Ill have to trust you on this one, i legit dont know, dont have the data, but personally ive never seen someone asking for it to make a return.

[FloosWorld]

Speaking of cheat units.. am I the only one who kinda finds it sad that four years in, the only cheat unit AoE 4 has is an updated version of AoE 1’s Photon Man?

Goofy and weird cheat units are (for me) one aspect that make AoE AoE, thinking about the Mediocre Bombard, Cobra Car, Alfred the Alpaca, the shotgun baby and more.

[marcoracosta205]

You’re not alone in this feeling my friend.

[jimmy19846071]

I opened a thread some time ago about my opinion on what happened to A0E4 across these years.

Obviously these are my opinions.

I think AOE4 coould be close to its final stage (i hope i’m wrong) - Age of Empires IV / IV - Discussion - Age of Empires Forum I think AOE4 coould be close to its final stage (i hope i'm wrong) - IV - Discussion - Age of Empires Forum

Feel free to commento each parts you could find interesting or not.

But for sure, my suggestions about next titles in Unreal Engine found concrete elements in the recent leaks

Yes, AOE5 Is in the works and It Will be in UNREAL Engine

Age of Empires 5 is under development and it Will be moved by UNREAL Engine (World’s Edge, the studio behind the AOE Franchise is looking for a Senior Unreal Enginer and a Principal Unreal to work on new AOE titles) : r/GamingLeaksAndRumours https://share.google/dJtb32JOr4YRZiB8N

[Franknezu11]

why this post when you were the oens who promoted this as you were justified as the best aoe in the franchise when it was entirily wrong sonce its conception

[marcoracosta205]

Aah youre still here, after all these years, not bored yet?

If you have something of value to share with us please do so, this post is meant to improve aoe4 not degrade it. Constructive criticism and concerns only, not hard feelings.

[MedicMaaan]

So you’re telling me that this:

If i were to ask WHO WANTED 4 VARIANTS as a DLC this year, i believe with my whole heart that only 1% would reply “i did”, because there is no way as a normal player that you would preffer reused factions before new art, new voice lines and new cultures.

Is in reference to that tweet?

What about the issues you have with map monsters? Additions like that are strictly outside of the competitive circuit, and are representative of the multiple efforts made by the devs to add content for non-competitive players.

And besides… Being a caster for a video game != being correct. From what I remember, killer pigeon famously does not play AoE 4 itself. He just watches competitive players play it… he may have a strong bias because of that.

---

Point being… I read complaints nearly identical to yours on a weekly basis. It’s not that you’re invalid Marco, it’s that what you’re saying effectively ignores everyone else in the room.

Sure, you don’t like it. You personally do not enjoy it.

But then you conflate your personal dissatisfaction with the devs not having made something for the majority.

Overpriced DLC’s that only satisfy less than 20% of the community

That’s the thing that irks me about these complaint discussions. They focus on making it seem like the developers are disinterested, the players are neglected, or that the game is “bad, terrible, no good, the absolute worst”. That certainly may be your perspective.

However, it leaves very little to discuss (other than: I agree/I disagree).

[FiveWind6951746]

@marcoracosta205

whole aoe4 apple is rotten

What a minute.

It is your job to pick fruit.

I am disappoint.

[FiveWind6951746]

It is called adding personality and charm, something every AoE had before AoEIV came along. In this aspect, IV went backwards.

On a related note, I took for granted just how important leader names are in identifying who is who..until they were missing. It doesn’t make team games very enjoyable for me, andIt greatly hurts immersion. Artillery just isn’t very fun, dare I say the worst in the franchise. Biomes are cool, but could be so much better with more fauna variety.

The lack of an enriching skirmish mode has been a sore spot for me with this game, as much appreciate the merits the game has.

I can’t speak for the state of the game, but I do know none of this has been adressed. Sad.

[marcoracosta205]

Seriously taken out of context.

@MedicMaaan

Is in reference to that tweet?

No, forgive me if i explained my self in a confusing way, that is just a point i brought to prove the other point. Which is btw, valid.

@MedicMaaan

What about the issues you have with map monsters? Additions like that are strictly outside of the competitive circuit, and are representative of the multiple efforts made by the devs to add content for non-competitive players.

Keep in mind im a casual player, with that in mind i can confidently say that casual players prefer historical groundness and realism over whatever this is, im sure @jimmy19846071 can agree. Sure that was content made to please a more “casual” playerbase, however does it really please them? Unless you ask them one by one you cant really tell, what i can tell however is that based on what we usually look for (us casuals) is not mythological units and biomes in a game that always prouded it self to be historical and grounded. Messes with the overall vibe and ruins the atmosphere, which leads to a break of inmersion.

@MedicMaaan

And besides… Being a caster for a video game != being correct. From what I remember, killer pigeon famously does not play AoE 4 itself. He just watches competitive players play it… he may have a strong bias because of that.

Never said he was right or that he was wrong, i just shared the convo, people can make their own thoughts. The whole convo btw is a conversation with Vortix, which is a competitive player by the way. Funny that a competitive player agrees that the current vision for the game is not the correct one.

@MedicMaaan

Point being… I read complaints nearly identical to yours on a weekly basis. It’s not that you’re invalid Marco, it’s that what you’re saying effectively ignores everyone else in the room.

Not really… People can add their own complaints, these are mine, i dont see how im ignoring anyone, if you could well, expand on that, would be great.

@MedicMaaan

That’s the thing that irks me about these complaint discussions. They focus on making it seem like the developers are disinterested, the players are neglected, or that the game is “bad, terrible, no good, the absolute worst”. That certainly may be your perspective.

Not really, not at all, aoe4 is one of my favorite games of all time, i have a thousand hours into it and ive made countless mods and youtube videos for it, just search infamia_aoe4 in youtube if you wish. Its not that i want to make the devs look unninterested, i want to make them see their own lack of clear vision and a wrong objective in mind. The most recent DLC’s have done pretty bad in reviews on steam. Dynasties of the East has 61% and its going down as we speak.

[marcoracosta205]

@FiveWind6951746

What a minute.

It is your job to pick fruit.

I am disappoint.

Hehehe this is a really good reference. Fruitpicker.

[MedicMaaan]

The 61% rating actually places this as the second highest rating a DLC has had for AoE IV. All 49 of the negative reviews in the last week have been entirely focused on the playerbase’s gripes with balance (golden horde specifically). As an aside, you made a blanket statement that only 20% want this… but it has an approval rating of 61%…

I don’t mean to say that your opinion is wrong, but your statement on ‘how casuals feel’ or what the playerbase at large thinks is off a bit. It’s not a statement that accurately represents the situation as displayed in public discourse and ratings, that’s what I’m saying you’re ignoring.

I would go further, but others have already taken the effort to share statistics, so I’ll just exit here.

[ChuckTheKiller3]

There is a lot about this post I disagree with.

I love AOE4, but I also love AOE2 and AOM. He said “aoe4 was factualy the best aoe game / factually it was the best option when someone asked “what aoe should i buy””. That is ENTIRELY opinion. It isn’t even the majority opinion. If you poll most players they will say AOE2 > AOE4. I’m someone who loves both games.

The map monsters is entirely not a big deal at all. It never comes up on Ranked. I basically never see it. Having more options for custom games is never a bad thing. They should not be discouraged for adding options. Lots of players find this kind of thing enjoyable, and the point of the game is to have enjoyment.

The $15/20 price tags is also not an issue for me. Compared to other games in the industry that kind of price for DLC content is peanuts. $15-20 every 6 months is TOTALLY worth it for the enjoyment I get out of this game. I would pay more if they delivered more.

The one thing I do have to concede is, NO ONE WANTED variants!!! They are clearly trying to skimp out on giving us proper DLC since the variants are considerably less effort. I would not be as disappointed about it, but like others have mentioned, I think the variants damper the possibility of getting proper civs. WE WANT A PROPER VIKING CIV! We don’t want a half-ass baked Norse-esch civ variant to be the permnanet Viking option! Charge $30 if you have to, but give us proper civ expansions! No more half-baked shit!

[Franknezu11]

from all people you should be one of those that accept the consecuences of its actions. if you wanted and promoted this state before , you shouldnt complain about it later

[marcoracosta205]

@MedicMaaan

As an aside, you made a blanket statement that only 20% want this… but it has an approval rating of 61%

You realize that 61% you see is a porcentage based on the people that have BOUGHT the DLC, which means that the porcentage is not the entire approval of the community, but from a select pool of people who were interested in the DLC to begin with, so your argument mathematically doesnt make sense…

From all the people that were interested, only 61% are happy with the product, that is all you need to know. We dont know the opinion of those who were not even interested because well, they cant drop a review can they?

@MedicMaaan

‘how casuals feel’ or what the playerbase at large thinks is off a bit. It’s not a statement that accurately represents the situation as displayed in public discourse and ratings

I dont see a happy playerbase if im honest, 61% rating is pretty mediocre, the DLC did not generate more exitement than Sultans Ascend, and lets be honest, just open youtube comments of the trailers of the DLC’s

I did not cherry pick by the way, those are literally the first 20 or 30 comments.

Its clear to me that the community is split and not happy so i think my statement on how “casuals” feel about this situation in general is not at all off…

[marcoracosta205]

@ChuckTheKiller3

I love AOE4, but I also love AOE2 and AOM. He said “aoe4 was factualy the best aoe game / factually it was the best option when someone asked “what aoe should i buy””. That is ENTIRELY opinion. It isn’t even the majority opinion. If you poll most players they will say AOE2 > AOE4. I’m someone who loves both games.

“They hated Jesus, just because he told the truth”

In all seriousness, a fact is not based on the opinion of the majority. Aoe4 was factually the best aoe at its prime because had the sharpest balance with literally all civilizations having 50% win rates or 49% which is perfect balance. By the way, i did forgot, when i said it was factually the best aoe to play, i meant like, multiplayer wise.

Single player wise? heck no. But multiplayer wise, there was a window of time where aoe4 was the best to get into, perfect balance, that alone makes for it.

@ChuckTheKiller3

The map monsters is entirely not a big deal at all. It never comes up on Ranked.

Someone is forgetting not all of us play ranked it seems…

@ChuckTheKiller3

Having more options for custom games is never a bad thing

It is when it is presented in a wrong way that ruins inmersion and atmosphere. At least for those who enjoy groundness, take for example a game like aoe3, that game handles inmersion and atmosphere PERFECTLY.

@ChuckTheKiller3

The $15/20 price tags is also not an issue for me. Compared to other games in the industry that kind of price for DLC content is peanuts. $15-20 every 6 months is TOTALLY worth it for the enjoyment I get out of this game. I would pay more if they delivered more.

Thats on you i guess, just take this into consideration, aoe3 it self costs the same as a DLC of aoe4 nowdays, that my friend is literally getting robbed in bare daylight. A content update is not WORTH the same as a full game, you do what do you want tho, im not saying that you shouldnt buy, not at all.

@ChuckTheKiller3

NO ONE WANTED variants!!! They are clearly trying to skimp out on giving us proper DLC since the variants are considerably less effort. I would not be as disappointed about it, but like others have mentioned, I think the variants damper the possibility of getting proper civs. WE WANT A PROPER VIKING CIV! We don’t want a half-ass baked Norse-esch civ variant to be the permnanet Viking option! Charge $30 if you have to, but give us proper civ expansions! No more half-baked shit!

Great! We agree on something after all

[marcoracosta205]

I find it amazing that you keep trying to beef and ragebait 2 years later lmao. For the record, the state aoe4 is in has nothing to do with the community desire, noone asked for variant civs, yet we got them, that is not my fault, neither its yours. This will be my last ever reply to you, because after all this time i can see you havent changed a bit, just telling you this so you dont waste your time replying to my comments that i wont reply back to, have a good day.

[CalapAdih]

The new AOE managers for the whole franchise are going dumb and are killing the whole things. All games are receiving bad content or no updates at all.

AOE4 : you stated the reasons.

AOE2 : chinese debacle

AOE3 : abandonned

AOE1 : abandonned

AOMR : retarded Jap/Chi civ, Marvel artstyle